WI both JFK and LBJ fatally shot in Dallas in November 1963

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

What would have been the result of Lyndon Johnson being killed in Dallas as well as Kennedy? From accounts of the assassination, the secret service agent in the vehicle in front of Johnson's vehicle was waving his rifle erratically, so something as mundane as friendly fire.

According to the Presidential Succession Act, John McCormick, the Speaker of the House, would have become acting president. Please no speculation on who the assassins were. I suppose a conspiracy to take out both the Prez and VP could be used as a POD, as long as the investigation reaches conclusions similar to IOTL, but think an accident would work better.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

John W. McCormack, actually.

He was 69 years old, and would not want to serve as President. He had only become Speaker the previous year. the next in line was Senate president pro tempore Carl Hayden who was 85. IMO, there would be an immediate gathering of the key players - McCormack, AG Robert Kennedy, Chief Justice Warren, Hayden, Senate leaders Humphrey and Dirksen, House leaders Albert and Halleck. They would agree to something like this: the Speakership is left vacant for a day; the House is adjourned. Hayden resigns as Senate p.p.t., and the Senate elects Humphrey as p.p.t. McCormack then resigns as President. Humphrey becomes President. McCormack reverts to Speaker, Hayden resumes as p.p.t.

(It might not be Humphrey - but probably some other well-regarded Democrat Senator. Not Ted Kennedy, he's only 31.)

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I have a pet mini timeline where both die, McCormack dies of stress, Hayden refuses the office and Dean Rusk (the man Kennedy saw as completely unexceptional) becomes President.

 

[gentboss]

People write off McCormack but you know what, he lived to the age of 90 and died in 1980 in OTL!

President McCormack might agree to serve as a caretaker President and let RFK be the Democratic nominee in 1964, but OTOH McCormack and RFK were personal enemies so maybe he'll decide to go for that term in his own right. (McCormack and the Kennedys had been on opposite sides of the MA Democratic machine decades earlier, and Teddy had successfully challenged McCormack's nephew in the 1962 Dem primary for Senate.)

What was McCormack like politically? He'd been a vigorous New Deal Democrat and was a strong supporter of the Great Society, including the civil rights program of Kennedy and Johnson. He was from an older generation of Catholic politician and was willing to take the Catholic side on issues in ways that Kennedy was not. He was also a major hawk on the Vietnam War.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

I was thinking McCormack as a caretaker President, with the Democrats likely nominating Humphrey or Robert Kennedy as their presidential candidate in 1964.

 

[Kermode]

He was 69 years old, and would not want to serve as President. He had only become Speaker the previous year. the next in line was Senate president pro tempore Carl Hayden who was 85. IMO, there would be an immediate gathering of the key players - McCormack, AG Robert Kennedy, Chief Justice Warren, Hayden, Senate leaders Humphrey and Dirksen, House leaders Albert and Halleck. They would agree to something like this: the Speakership is left vacant for a day; the House is adjourned. Hayden resigns as Senate p.p.t., and the Senate elects Humphrey as p.p.t. McCormack then resigns as President. Humphrey becomes President. McCormack reverts to Speaker, Hayden resumes as p.p.t.

I really cannot see this happening. This scheme— to do a run-around the line of succession to install someone not in line— would only create more confusion and uncertainty at a time when it's needed the most… and just because the constitutionally-designated man doesn't want to do the job.

No, McCormack may not want the job, but he'd full well recognize his role in ending the crisis. And if not, he's told to suck it up.

 

[Mark E.]

To make Humphrey president, suppose the House names a speaker who is ineligible to be president. The senate names Humphrey (or another senator) as ppt, making him next in line to be president. Neither McCormack nor Hayden take the oath of office, so the presidency is vacant for the day it takes to complete the process.

 

[Kermode]

To make Humphrey president, suppose the House names a speaker who is ineligible to be president. The senate names Humphrey (or another senator) as ppt, making him next in line to be president. Neither McCormack nor Hayden take the oath of office, so the presidency is vacant for the day it takes to complete the process.

Well, there is no requirement for the Speaker of the House to actually be a member of the House, so there's no reason they couldn't just name Humphrey (or whoever else) to that role in the first place.

But again, this is not happening.

 

[Mark E.]

Most likely, McCormack becomes president for a short time (maybe a few weeks) until a successor is appropriately named Speaker. The issue is that McCormack needs to resign from the House to assume the presidency so the earliest he can return to the House (if he wants to) is the next election (maybe special).

 

[gentboss]

McCormack would have no reason to resign except for his health; and in OTL he lived for almost twenty years after Dallas. Resignation means projecting an aura of weakness and disorder at home and abroad; always bad, especially in 1963.

 

[gentboss]

(not to be unkind, but he outlived both RFK _and_ Humphrey!)

 

[marktaha]

McCormack 72. Would have been caretaker President- 1964 battle between Humphrey Bobby Kennedy Stevenson Symington andWallace. Symington/Kennedy?

 

[Emperor Norton I]

McCormack 72. Would have been caretaker President- 1964 battle between Humphrey Bobby Kennedy Stevenson Symington andWallace. Symington/Kennedy?

I view Symington as a decent "also ran" but not a president. My money is on Humphrey/Robert Kennedy.

On the topic of RFK, he could well ride a wave of support to the vice presidency but I have strong reservations at the prospect of him running for president in 1964. RFK had to learn to be a politician and he was woefully unprepared in 1964 to even run for Senator. He simply did not have the personality, charisma or experience for it. He had to develop it. That on the job learning may be fine as VP but even if he became president in 1964, I think it would have been a complete mess.

 

[gentboss]

Maybe in the ATL, everyone thinks that the Great Society could never have passed without the double-shock of JFK/LBJ's death; and that surely a younger, savvier President would have kept us out of the war in Vietnam.

 

[redjirachi]

TTL Conspiracy theorists: Heavy breathing

 

[Bob in Pittsburgh]

John W. McCormack, actually.

He was 69 years old, and would not want to serve as President. He had only become Speaker the previous year. the next in line was Senate president pro tempore Carl Hayden who was 85. IMO, there would be an immediate gathering of the key players - McCormack, AG Robert Kennedy, Chief Justice Warren, Hayden, Senate leaders Humphrey and Dirksen, House leaders Albert and Halleck. They would agree to something like this: the Speakership is left vacant for a day; the House is adjourned. Hayden resigns as Senate p.p.t., and the Senate elects Humphrey as p.p.t. McCormack then resigns as President. Humphrey becomes President. McCormack reverts to Speaker, Hayden resumes as p.p.t.

(It might not be Humphrey - but probably some other well-regarded Democrat Senator. Not Ted Kennedy, he's only 31.)

The system could not stand the shocks of these various resignations. Mc Cormack would have become President, He would not run for reelection. MY the way Mike Mansfield not Humphrey was the Senate was the Senate Majority Leader. As you note Teddy Kennedy was 31; the Constitution requires the President to be 35.

 

[Derek Jackson]

Maybe McComack becomes a great President. He will have HUGE influence and support

 

[Questerr]

John W. McCormack, actually.

He was 69 years old, and would not want to serve as President. He had only become Speaker the previous year. the next in line was Senate president pro tempore Carl Hayden who was 85. IMO, there would be an immediate gathering of the key players - McCormack, AG Robert Kennedy, Chief Justice Warren, Hayden, Senate leaders Humphrey and Dirksen, House leaders Albert and Halleck. They would agree to something like this: the Speakership is left vacant for a day; the House is adjourned. Hayden resigns as Senate p.p.t., and the Senate elects Humphrey as p.p.t. McCormack then resigns as President. Humphrey becomes President. McCormack reverts to Speaker, Hayden resumes as p.p.t.

(It might not be Humphrey - but probably some other well-regarded Democrat Senator. Not Ted Kennedy, he's only 31.)

McCormack couldn’t “revert to Speaker”. Legally he would be required to resign his office in the House before taking the Oath of Office for President. His seat would be vacant.

 

[marktaha]

McCormack couldn’t “revert to Speaker”. Legally he would be required to resign his office in the House before taking the Oath of Office for President. His seat would be vacant.

He could surely have got it back in 1965.

 

[marktaha]

I view Symington as a decent "also ran" but not a president. My money is on Humphrey/Robert Kennedy.

On the topic of RFK, he could well ride a wave of support to the vice presidency but I have strong reservations at the prospect of him running for president in 1964. RFK had to learn to be a politician and he was woefully unprepared in 1964 to even run for Senator. He simply did not have the personality, charisma or experience for it. He had to develop it. That on the job learning may be fine as VP but even if he became president in 1964, I think it would have been a complete mess.

Would Southern delegates have been prepared to vote for Humphrey?