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REDUX: Place In The Sun: What If Italy Joined The Central Powers?
- Thread starter Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
- Start date
Following along discussions with Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, these were to be the terms of the peace treaties between the Central Powers Alliance and the Entente Cordiale, depicted in the following maps. Please excuse their unfinished states, certain specifics were still being debated and I did not want to add too much detail until everything was confirmed.
Europe
Africa
When the time comes to fulfill the pre-war Austro-Italian agreement on the cession of strategic territories in South Tyrol and Istria, Vienna defies the convention, insisting on plebiscites which are soon rigged, resulting in the loss of only the Trentino and allowing Austria-Hungary to keep hold of Trieste as well as the German-speaking parts of South Tyrol. This betrayal inflames Austro-Italian relations and seeds a deep and perpetual emnity between the two, with both sides considering their victory to be a "mutilated" one, though the Austro-Hungarians moreso than the Italians (who at least gained their claims in France).
The poor performance of the Turks in the war and British control over Iraq led to a negotiation whereby Germany pressured the Ottomans to recognise the loss of Iraq, which Britain returned by allowing Germany to demand French colonies in the Congo. This was not enough to stop the British from keeping the Italian colonies, with the Italians resenting Germany for their own colonial expansion while Rome was deprived of hers. Italy was likewise denied Malta.
The end result of the war is very much a negotiated one, and while the Central Powers were the victors, it was far from total, with Italy being kicked back to the Mediterranean, the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires weakened and clinging to Germany, and of course the Germans now saddled with debt and overstretched. Britain, meanwhile, expanded its colonial empire and protected the independance of Belgium, albeit at the cost of allowing German hegemony over much of Europe. The only true loser in this fight is France, now stripped of its most important industrial regions, of several colonies, and facing an enormous loss of life and humiliation.
Europe
Africa
- Europe
- Western Front
- Annexation of the region of Belfort to Germany from France, to be unified with a now-complete Alsace
- Annexation of French Lorraine up to the Meuse river to Germany, with the border stretched over it at the cities of Sedan and Verdun so that they might be fully annexed
- Grand Duchy of Luxembourg to be annexed into the German Empire as a constituent state
- Annexation of Eastern Belgian territory until the Meuse to Germany; Namur and Liege to be annexed fully by Germany
- Annexation of Savoy, Nice, and Corsica from France to Italy
- Eastern Front
- Annexation of the "Border Strip" from Russian Poland to Germany
- Liberation and recognition from Russia of the Kingdom of Poland, the Kingdom of Lithuania, and the Grand Duchy of Courland (including Riga)
- Annexation of Bessarabia by the Kingdom of Romania
- Recognition by Russia of the Ukranian People's Republic
- Annexation of coastal Montenegro by Austria-Hungary
- Annexation of Serbian Macedonia by Bulgaria
- Annexation of Eastern Serbian land up to the Morava river
- Union of Serbia and Montenegro
- Formation of Albanian Protectorate under the Kingdom of Italy
- Western Front
- Middle East
- Annexation of Kars by the Ottoman Empire
- Recognition of the British Mandate of Iraq by the Ottoman Empire
- Africa
- French cession of the Tunisian Protectorate to Italian suzerainty
- Annexation by the United Kingdom of Italian Eritrea and Somaliland
- Annexation by Germany of French Gabon and Congo
- Annextion by British South Africa of German Southwest Africa
When the time comes to fulfill the pre-war Austro-Italian agreement on the cession of strategic territories in South Tyrol and Istria, Vienna defies the convention, insisting on plebiscites which are soon rigged, resulting in the loss of only the Trentino and allowing Austria-Hungary to keep hold of Trieste as well as the German-speaking parts of South Tyrol. This betrayal inflames Austro-Italian relations and seeds a deep and perpetual emnity between the two, with both sides considering their victory to be a "mutilated" one, though the Austro-Hungarians moreso than the Italians (who at least gained their claims in France).
The poor performance of the Turks in the war and British control over Iraq led to a negotiation whereby Germany pressured the Ottomans to recognise the loss of Iraq, which Britain returned by allowing Germany to demand French colonies in the Congo. This was not enough to stop the British from keeping the Italian colonies, with the Italians resenting Germany for their own colonial expansion while Rome was deprived of hers. Italy was likewise denied Malta.
The end result of the war is very much a negotiated one, and while the Central Powers were the victors, it was far from total, with Italy being kicked back to the Mediterranean, the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires weakened and clinging to Germany, and of course the Germans now saddled with debt and overstretched. Britain, meanwhile, expanded its colonial empire and protected the independance of Belgium, albeit at the cost of allowing German hegemony over much of Europe. The only true loser in this fight is France, now stripped of its most important industrial regions, of several colonies, and facing an enormous loss of life and humiliation.
If Serbia losing half its core territory (to a country that never had any claims on that region, to boot) doesn't count as being a true loser, I don't know what does.
Fair point, I meant more the Great Powers (hence Bulgaria not bring named as the only true winner) but you aren't wrong.
Is Rhodes and the Dodecanese being a part of Greece intentional? Because the treaty description does not mention it
Thanks for posting it! It largely tracks with what KW10 was hinting at throughout.
What happens with the Russian Empire? Did they still have revolution and civil war?The mentioned of the Ukrainian People's Republic hints at it.
How are things with the United States? How would they react to German hegemony over Europe and avoiding the bloodbath over there.
How does London and the British public actually feel about the war? Was Belgium and the empire really worth it? Never mind Germany dominating mainland Europe alongside their weakness.
No, actually I copied the map over from the one I've made for later in MY story (having to remake Greece and the thousand islands was daunting) and I forgot to add that in
Unfortunately I can't answer any of these with certainty, we mainly just discussed the map changes and a bit of how it affected Austria and Italy specifically.
Oof, glad we have some closure. And that's a.. Rather reasonable ending, all things considered, to the Great War. Negotiated peace where Britain does reasonably well - at the cost of abandoning it's allies (but hey it's Britain so tradition), the Central Powers aren't happy with one another, and Germany's got to actually now rule the area it occupies.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
Me like that chonky Bulgaria.
the best i can say regarding the Balkans future is:
-Bulgaria is the hegemon of the Balkans. if they somehow tame the Serbians in Nish( expel them or integrate them 'magically') there is no army that could defeat them 1v1.
-Romania should be happy and keep good relation with Bulgaria. They need an ally beside AH and after ww1 there is no one better than the TBE.
-Serbia will have their version of the second Bulgarian catastrophe but multiplied by 10. Nish has the majority of their mineral and coal deposits so their economy will suffer a lot. maybe after the 20's they fall to fascism/Nazism- dictatorship?
-Greece is going to be a bit isolated. Relations with the Turks are cold as hell. a bit warmer but still cold with Bulgaria, same with Albania for claims. Serbia will fill betrayed by them for not joining ww1.
-Albania will entrench herself and pray that no war starts for te next decades to come.
-AH will have to reform or die to separatism. a victory of the war is just a bit longer life support but that's it.
Not by that much, IRC the war will have been much shorter than OTL and we get the disputed zone from France (better if we get also Tunisia but the rest of the world is not showed) plus some piece from Austria
IRC Albania is whole owned subsidiary of Italy
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
Italy gets their good share.
Nice, savoy, Corsica and Tunisia.
basically all the "terre irridente" claims except Istria and Malta.
they will be objectively honest about the fact that britain would not give them back their horn colonies after losing them quickly. the settlers will be transferred to Lybia and Tunisia.
if the fascist don't form after the war, people like Balbo and Grandi will join the ANI most likely ( like in the kaiserreich).
what puzzles me is the future of Mussolini. his new party might be more syndacalist than fascist after the war. also with no actual "vittoria mutilata" he won't gain that great support.
So my two cents about the post war situation that can be summed this way:
France: extremely bad, due to the loss both in blood, treasure and territory...revolution is basically a given and the outcome much depend on how the neighbourg (Germany and Italy) will react but i also expect that they need to deal with their own internal problem.
UK: come out of the war with some colonies more and nominally achieving his objective to keep Belgium neutral, on the other hand Germany is now the hegemon of the continent and there are no available allies to even think to counter her...expecially after the way the war ended. Their only hope for that is to court Italy but is more a long term thing and not a given without up front payment as by now nobody with a functioning brain cell with trust the UK. Geopolitically her situation is even more problematic with Italy not being capable of cutting the Mediterrean in two and being the second navy in that sea, this will force the Royal Navy to reinforce the med being in a situation akin to 1940 if any war start
Germany: big winner but it was a costly one need time to consolidate his conquest and quell the incoming internal trouble, expecially due to the fact that the junkers really don't want to pay the promised political bill to the socialist. At this there is the need to add the prop up of A-H that can become problematica and costly, so after a certain limit i see Berlin decide to wash it up and dismember the hapsburg empire, even to avoid the spread of any to extreme ideology
Italy; well after all better than OTL as the war has been shorter and there is no the need to rebuild a piece of the nation with the added refugee crisis and neither spent billions on rebuilding the army due to Caporetto. Said that, the loss of Eritrea and Somalia even if greatly compensated by Tunisia will be felt as big humiliation and A-H sham referendum after reneging the previous agreement even more and the only reason a war not start will be Germany and the fact that everyone is too spent but i expect relation between Rome and Wien being relaxed as the one between Israel and Iran.
A-H: oh boy, ok the war had see her gaining some land and eliminate Serbia as an enemy but relations with Italy, well if before the war were not very good by now they are worse than ever and both side know that a conflict between them is just a matter of time and frankly whatever gained hardly justify the blood and tresure spent plus the fact that while Trieste is kept now italian control Albania and can close the Adriatic when they want (sure it's assured that if they do that it mean war but nevertheless is a big menace). Worse of that, the war had not resolved any of the problem of the Empire that not only still need of serious reform but at all the human and economic loss one must add the fact that the nation by now is dependent of Germany
France: extremely bad, due to the loss both in blood, treasure and territory...revolution is basically a given and the outcome much depend on how the neighbourg (Germany and Italy) will react but i also expect that they need to deal with their own internal problem.
UK: come out of the war with some colonies more and nominally achieving his objective to keep Belgium neutral, on the other hand Germany is now the hegemon of the continent and there are no available allies to even think to counter her...expecially after the way the war ended. Their only hope for that is to court Italy but is more a long term thing and not a given without up front payment as by now nobody with a functioning brain cell with trust the UK. Geopolitically her situation is even more problematic with Italy not being capable of cutting the Mediterrean in two and being the second navy in that sea, this will force the Royal Navy to reinforce the med being in a situation akin to 1940 if any war start
Germany: big winner but it was a costly one need time to consolidate his conquest and quell the incoming internal trouble, expecially due to the fact that the junkers really don't want to pay the promised political bill to the socialist. At this there is the need to add the prop up of A-H that can become problematica and costly, so after a certain limit i see Berlin decide to wash it up and dismember the hapsburg empire, even to avoid the spread of any to extreme ideology
Italy; well after all better than OTL as the war has been shorter and there is no the need to rebuild a piece of the nation with the added refugee crisis and neither spent billions on rebuilding the army due to Caporetto. Said that, the loss of Eritrea and Somalia even if greatly compensated by Tunisia will be felt as big humiliation and A-H sham referendum after reneging the previous agreement even more and the only reason a war not start will be Germany and the fact that everyone is too spent but i expect relation between Rome and Wien being relaxed as the one between Israel and Iran.
A-H: oh boy, ok the war had see her gaining some land and eliminate Serbia as an enemy but relations with Italy, well if before the war were not very good by now they are worse than ever and both side know that a conflict between them is just a matter of time and frankly whatever gained hardly justify the blood and tresure spent plus the fact that while Trieste is kept now italian control Albania and can close the Adriatic when they want (sure it's assured that if they do that it mean war but nevertheless is a big menace). Worse of that, the war had not resolved any of the problem of the Empire that not only still need of serious reform but at all the human and economic loss one must add the fact that the nation by now is dependent of Germany
A thing to consider is that without the enormous losses, debts and consequent political instability Italy could be more active on the international stage.
There will probably be a lot of French surplus rifles and hand grenades "happening" to end in the hands of "criminal elements" in the "still Austrian" regions near the Italian border and Italy won't take the forceful dissolution of the pro-Italian Maltese nationalist party by the British laying down.
Actually, Malta would have been the perfect stage for D'annunzio to work his magic. Maybe he even gets killed by British authorities while trying to spark a revolt. The last martyr of the Risorgimento, he would have liked that on his gravestone.
There will probably be a lot of French surplus rifles and hand grenades "happening" to end in the hands of "criminal elements" in the "still Austrian" regions near the Italian border and Italy won't take the forceful dissolution of the pro-Italian Maltese nationalist party by the British laying down.
Actually, Malta would have been the perfect stage for D'annunzio to work his magic. Maybe he even gets killed by British authorities while trying to spark a revolt. The last martyr of the Risorgimento, he would have liked that on his gravestone.