AHC: Turkic Late Medieval Resurgent Mesopotamia

Marko

As I am sick at home I had some time to catch up with a few things that I wanted to read for several years but failed to find time.


So I read about Mesopotamia between the sack of the Bagdad by the Mongols and the Ottoman conquest of the region and a posibility came to me.


How would be possible to achieve a Turkic state with the core territories in upper mesopotamia, with the captiol in Mosul. The country would have to become the prominent Muslim power in the world on the same level Ottoman Empire was OTL, the POD would have to be between 1335 and 1370.

By 1600 it should control these areas

 

Elfwine

Hm.

The Black and White Sheep Turks are in part of this area, so that might be a start.

I don't think a power controlling just that area would be equal to OTL's Ottomans though.
 

stevep

Elfwine said:
Hm.

The Black and White Sheep Turks are in part of this area, so that might be a start.

I don't think a power controlling just that area would be equal to OTL's Ottomans though.
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Elfwine

Also its squeezed between Anatolia, Egypt and Persia, all generally centres of great power. You would really need at least two of those to be pretty drastically reduced to have a Mesopotamian state prosper I think.

Possibly something of a Byzantine revival [or Serb or Bulgarian say] largely keeping the Ottomans out of Europe, then Timur still occurs and creams their Asiatic lands, possibly followed by the major Orthodox state in the Balkans contesting Anatolia with them to keep them occupied. Timur could also cripple Persia as a result.

The problem with this scenario is that Timur would also be controlling the heartland of the Mesopotamian state and probably leaving devastation behind him as he normally did. Possibly you can assume a ruler/dynasty that basically plays possum, accepting Timur's control without too much opposition, but even then their likely to be killed off. Possibly the dynasty goes underground to a degree then re-emerges and obtains prestige as liberators as the Timurid dynasty crumbles?

Steve
 

Elfwine

stevep said:
Elfwine

Also its squeezed between Anatolia, Egypt and Persia, all generally centres of great power. You would really need at least two of those to be pretty drastically reduced to have a Mesopotamian state prosper I think.

Possibly something of a Byzantine revival [or Serb or Bulgarian say] largely keeping the Ottomans out of Europe, then Timur still occurs and creams their Asiatic lands, possibly followed by the major Orthodox state in the Balkans contesting Anatolia with them to keep them occupied. Timur could also cripple Persia as a result.

The problem with this scenario is that Timur would also be controlling the heartland of the Mesopotamian state and probably leaving devastation behind him as he normally did. Possibly you can assume a ruler/dynasty that basically plays possum, accepting Timur's control without too much opposition, but even then their likely to be killed off. Possibly the dynasty goes underground to a degree then re-emerges and obtains prestige as liberators as the Timurid dynasty crumbles?

Steve
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Timur did cripple Persia. But yeah, I think the best you can hope for in this area is it prospering with a divided Anatolia and Persia still working its way back into one of its periodic periods of unity.

Egypt isn't that big a deal whether intact or not, but a strong Anatolian+ state (Byzantium, OTL Ottomans, etc.) will want to break this state - although its existence implies a lack of a strong Iran given that eastern border (Why only that far east and no further, I wonder).
 

altwere

If this country is strong and not very interested in expanding farther into Anatolia, then either an Ottoman or revived Byzantine Empire would be tempted by eastern Europe or the Ukraine.
 

Elfwine

altwere said:
If this country is strong and not very interested in expanding farther into Anatolia, then either an Ottoman or revived Byzantine Empire would be tempted by eastern Europe or the Ukraine.
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A revived Byzantine empire is going to look at Anatolia over the Ukraine. Not sure about the Ottomans.
 

altwere

I'm sure that a reviving Byzantine empire will conquer as much of anatolia as possible but given a tough opponent expanding up the coast of the Black sea and into southern Ukraine might seem like a good idea.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
If the Ottoman dynasty goes extinct during the Timurid wars, then the whole area is up for grabs by all regional player. Any of the Sheeps could do it. But that empire would probably be quite temporary. As soon as Persia and Anatolia are unified by the new players. (Perhaps Karamanids in Anatolia?) Mesopotamia will be squished.
 

Elfwine

altwere said:
I'm sure that a reviving Byzantine empire will conquer as much of anatolia as possible but given a tough opponent expanding up the coast of the Black sea and into southern Ukraine might seem like a good idea.
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Given a tough opponent, the Byzantines will look still do it. They faced off against far more formidable opposition than this power - let's call it Jazirah for its center in northern Mesopotamia - has, and the southern Ukraine TTL is . . . unpromising.

I can't see a scenario the Byzantines bother with an area of Nomadia that only extends their frontiers.
 
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