Byzantine Empire Surviving.

hey, i know i'm a new member here, but i was working on the 'Byzantium survives' timeline. i was lurking here for several weeks, and found some interesting time lines here.

this project is a time-line from the PoD to 2010. it is... obviously Byzantine centric and doesn't focus too much on the outside world. it has none of this 'butterfly effect' because i do not know the real effects of Byzantium surviving. Beyond what is stated in the time line.

the PoD is in 1059, when Isaac 1 of komnenos resumes his duties as Emperor of Byzantium. I seem to be stuck in 1754, after the Roman Empire is destroyed.

constructive criticism is welcomed. i recognize that my time line is incomplete, and needs massive work on it. there dosnt seem to be any spoiler tags... sorry this is gonna be huge.

to be perfectly honest, the Barabas Dynasty is a placeholder until i come up with a native Greek Dynasty that sounds unique. then again it is possible that a Hungarian family would take over the throne...

the history of the Byzantine Empire.

this history is not real, but rather based on an alternate time line. The time line i will be documenting is from the PoD which is in 1059. roughly.

1059: Isaac I resume his Emperor Duties after he has recovered. this starts the long lasting komnenos Dynasty.

1071: the Seljuk Turks fail to invade manzikert, and never extensively settle Anatolia.

1108: the first crusade is aimed at the holy land. it fails, because the Roman Empire never agrees to a Crusade.

1112: Serbian Rebels capture Belgrade and proclaim the Serbian Empire, they attempt to expand their holdings

1117: the Main Serbian army is crushed, ending the Serbian Rebellion.

1140: Serbia Declares independence and crushes the Roman army located there. their independence is assured by a peace treaty.

1156: Venice demands trading rights within Rome and demands a settlement on Constantinople. Rome Refused, saying arrogant demands from a city state will never be accepted. the Venetian Ambassadors were executed for such arrogance.

1162: the Second Crusade, once again aimed at the holy land, this time the Roman Empire participates, and it is a resounding success.

1170: a third crusade follows upon the success of the Second, and attacks Alexandria. it succeeds.

1184: the Venetians Divert the fourth Crusade to Constantinople, purely to punish the Roman Empire. the pope warned the Emperor of Rome and dispatched their navy to meet them at sea. they refused to turn back and go home and they attempted to bypass the fleet. the Crusaders fleet was burned and sunk after a 2 hour battle.

1220: the Mongol Empire Unifies, 14 years late.

1236: Bulgaria Declares their independence. the Roman Empire attempts to destroy the state but after the army is defeated and barely manages to escape utter destruction, a peace treaty was signed giving them their independence.

1260: the Abbasid Caliphate Nearly falls when the Mongols take Baghdad, only to be ambushed by a large Roman Force, dispatched to help their allies.

1261: Baghdad was taken, destroying the Caliphate and a large Roman Army located there.

1270: Battle of Manzikert: a large Roman force of 20,000 was defeated by 5,000 Mongols. they begin their steady advance to Roman Territory, Rome builds up the military by conscription of every able bodied men, to prepare for the all out war.

1273: Bulgaria was completely destroyed by the mongol hordes, despite Roman efforts to stall them. some Bulgarian Armies that survived more or less intact retreated to the Roman Empire wherein they were Absorbed into the Roman Army.

1275: mongol advances were slowed by Roman Armies, and the mongols wasted precious time in wiping them out. most of the Roman armies weren't even wiped out, they just gave space to mongols

1277: in the largest battle in the known world at the time 500,000 Roman soldiers face 100,000 mongols at Ankara. the Mongols decided to charge at the Romans, which were barely repulsed. then the Roman army committed their own forces to destroy the mongol army from the front. they manage to sneak a fairly large part of the army behind them, and with both of them attacking, the mongols were utterly destroyed. only 65,000 Byzantines has died, most of them irregulars.

1278-1361: the Roman Empire do a very slow, very tedious and bloody warfare to regain the lost areas of Byzantium. of particular note was the battle of Antioch. the Byzantines had to Siege the city for three months before the mongols surrendered.

1298-1303: Venice, having built up its navy, declared war against Rome for more land. Venice was successful. sort of. they got the land they wanted (Adriatic coast and Crete) but was financially crippled.

1305-1385: Crisis of the 12th century: the Roman Empire, faced with mongol forces on both sides and a failing Economy, has lost most of its soldiers in the Mongol war. a Roman civil war has occurred, badly damaging the state and its international prestige. in 1340 the Komnenos Dynasty was overthrown by the Palaiologan Dynasty. they would then rule for the next 400 years.

1342: the Bulgarian state was reestablished with help of Rome.

1375: Albania (then Eprius) Declares independence from Rome. the State couldn't accept that so they sent an army to pacify the region. Serbia backed Albania, so another war followed, with Roman defeat.

1389-1432: the Roman Empire, hoping to avenge the loss of the previous war, declared war against Serbia. the war was long and Bloody. by wars end, Rome has being narrowly defeated by Serbia. Both sides were ruined by decades of war.

1453-1460: Macedon, controlling most of modern day Greece, declared independence from Rome. another war started soon after, with Roman Defeat. Sparta has being annexed by Macedonia. they begin the process of converting the Greek culture that existed to a Macedonian one.

1461-1574: the Roman Empire is barely existing at this point. the Economy was in ruins, the Military was barely able to defend its borders, and research is haphazard. but in the year 1503, Emperor Alexius VI of Palaiologos managed to stabilize the state, although it took 71 years for the Empire to fully recover.

1472-1480: the Caliphate invaded the Roman Empire, hoping to finish the job that they failed to do in the 8th century. the invasion was successful, but they made a foolhardy attempt to capture Constantinople. even with gunpowder, which the Arabs had, they still failed to conquer the legendary city. a peace treaty was hammered out. everything East of the Euphrates river was now Arabian territory.

1503: the Roman Empire, discovering that Almost the Entire world has adopted Gunpowder as the primary weapon of choice, switch to Gunpowder, becoming one of the last nations to do so.

1520-1536: Rome, seeking to reconquer their lands declared war on Macedon. the result of this 16 year war was a narrow Roman victory. they have gained the island of Crete, as well as Sparta.

1540-1546: Rome liberates the land from the horribly unstable Caliphate, the Caliphate collapses because Rome defeating th much larger Caliphate inspired the rebels to take down the Caliphate.

1560: the new world is Discovered by France. their attempts to conquer the Aztecs failed.

1575: Rome stabilized itself and entered into a era of relative seclusion. this would last for almost 195 years. the trade is unaffected, but Byzantium focuses on itself rather than gaining more land. as a result, the Roman Empire is more stable than the rest of the world., making the nation relatively prosperous.

1600: a modern tax system was conceived and implemented. this greatly increased revenue, which the state then used to fund a Public education and health systems.

1603 - 1610: Macedon declared war on Rome, and in the 7 year war, Macedon was the victor. Sparta, and Crete was liberated, and they conquered a a thin coastal slice of Rome in Western Anatolia.

1612: the Roman Empire declared war on Macedon and reconquered Anatolia, and severely weakening the Macedon navy.

1625-1632: Macedon and Rome has an all out war with each-other, each side seeking to destroy the others. during that 7 year war, it was a draw. Macedonia's superior army and navy was a match for the numerically superior but technologically outdated troops. hundreds of thousands on both sides has died.

1635: the Previous system of Themes was abolished, and provinces were created out fo the ashes of the Theme system.

1640: all fo the provinces were admitted to the state. the Constantinople province was expanded to 5191 square kilometers, Constantinople proper is designated as a city, while the rest of the area is a metropolitan area of Constantinople.

1650: Constantinople is the largest city in the world, with 2 million people. it would remain the largest city in the world until the modern ages.

1660: Cyprus peacefully Requests independence, and is Granted.

1685: the Industrial age started in the Roman Empire. due to the isolation and relatively high security, no other country managed to start their own industrialization until 1750, by the British Empire.

1700: the railroad is invented, and Rome sponsors the construction of the Rail lines throughout Anatolia.

1705: the idea of Democracy dies in Byzantium as the nobles refused to give up their power.

1709-1714: Macedonia declared war on Rome hoping to invade Constantinople and to secure their position in the Aegean sea. during that 5 year war, Macedonia was in ruins. the armies and navies were completely destroyed, but they inflicted so much damage to Rome, that they could not carry on the conquest of Macedonia without sacrificing protection elsewhere. a peace treaty was signed, in Roman favor.

1722-1728: Macedonia rebuilt its navy and army in secret, with Russia's help. they Declared war on Rome and conquered vast areas of south western Anatolia. Constantinople was attacked by Macedonia several times. all of the attacks were repulsed, more or less. a peace treaty returned everything to status quo.

1729: the Civil war started as the Barabas Family, a rather influential lower class family, with many other lower class family in southeast Anatolia proclaimed the revolution of Byzantium, to secure Equal rights for all citizens and the abolition of the Class system.

1730: the Revolutionary army became organized, with a provisional capital at Van. the Army Got its first victory by putting down a weak Roman force that was sent to Quell the Rebellion.

1731: Trebizond was captured, when a major Roman Army located there defected to Byzantium.

1732: the Revolution grew stronger, at Romania's expense. the Revolutionary armies further organized itself to the Byzantine Empire the royal family was elected by the revolutionary peoples. Theodore Barabas came to the throne, thus starting the Barabas Dynasty.

1733: the Roman Empire completely destroyed the Revolutionaries best Army group, 10,000 people were killed. this serious setback delayed the Revolutionary plans to attack Ankara.

1734: Romania's 135,000 soldiers and the Revolutionaries 68,000 soldiers clash, and in a ten day fight, the Revolutionaries win the Battle and thus Ankara, at very heavy cost. the Bulk of the Roman army was also destroyed. the Government relocated there after it was secure.

1735: the revolutionaries enjoy massive popular support, so they were able to quickly liberate most of Anatolia that was left. they were unable to go into Constantinople, as it was too heavily protected. the nations who were supporting the absolute monarchy abandoned them, saying that the Palaiologan Dynasty was an old corrupt regime who were going to fall one way or the other. that, and they were afraid of the Revolutionary's ideas spreading.

1736: First battle of Constantinople. after swiftly taking Adrianople, the Revolutionary armies lay siege to Constantinople. the siege lasted 5 months, and it was a failure, because the city was supplied from Crimea. with the siege failed, the Revolutionary army withdrew.

1737: the Revolutionaries built up their navy and started the Second Battle of Constantinople. this time the navy prevented resupply, so they reduced the northern wall to rubble and invaded Constantinople from there. they faced a disorganized but fanatical army inside. the Battle raged on for 6 months, but it was a success for the Revolution. the Komnenos Dynasty retreated to Crimea.

1738: after a 8 year long civil war, the Roman Empire has collapsed. and it was replaced by the Byzantine Empire, a constitutional Monarchist state, headed by the Barabas Dynasty, with the capital at Constantinople. the last remaining area of the Roman Empire, Crimea, is left alone.

1739: the Byzantine Constitution was ratified and signed by the senate. the state is an Absolute Monarchy, like the Roman Empire before, but the people have equal rights and religious freedom, and the one party senate does whatever the Emperor tell them to do (providing it passes the senate voting process)

1750-1751: Russia swiftly destroys the last territory of the Roman Empire in criema. this alarms Byzantium, as Russia was a strong world power spanning from the Baltic sea to the Urals.
 
First off, welcome to the forum!

As for your timeline...it's still rough around the edges and could use some work (I'd like to more about the "how" part of things, not just the when) and some of it is a bit anachronistic, but it's actually quite good in concept. For one thing, you're one of the few Byzantophiles who don't wank the empire copiously. For example, the "Isaac's Empire" TL, which has the same POD as you, ends up with the Empire covering a good chunk of the known world, and having space flight before the 1900s. So, good for you on that.
 
First off, welcome to the forum!

As for your timeline...it's still rough around the edges and could use some work (I'd like to more about the "how" part of things, not just the when) and some of it is a bit anachronistic, but it's actually quite good in concept. For one thing, you're one of the few Byzantophiles who don't wank the empire copiously. For example, the "Isaac's Empire" TL, which has the same POD as you, ends up with the Empire covering a good chunk of the known world, and having space flight before the 1900s. So, good for you on that.

I'd second this. It's an interesting outline that would be fun to fill in. Ask around for one of the Byzantine experts to help you out. My big issue with it is the lack of butterflies, but you've explained that.

Welcome to the Board!
 
actually... that time-line is the third version. version one and two seemed too wanky to me so i changed it.

the most serious problem is the Mongols (and by extension, Russia). wouldn't they be realistically different? i mean, they unified 14 years late. it coudl be of a different tribe, maybe the Empire would be a Turkic one not a Mongolian one.

that presents a whole host of issues. what woudl the invasion route be? would they get far? what countries coudl they destroy, can they even reach Ankara, etc.

honestly, i cant think of anything beyond 1751. would Byzantium Realistically be like Switzerland? or would it intervene or take part in the various wars?

.. I briefly considered *someone* destroying the world with nukes in the late 1900s. i dropped that, since it would be way too much work to describe what was hit, what governments fell, which didn't and the new states.

...that and it would make Byzantium the strongest power in Europe...
 
actually... that time-line is the third version. version one and two seemed too wanky to me so i changed it.

the most serious problem is the Mongols (and by extension, Russia). wouldn't they be realistically different? i mean, they unified 14 years late. it coudl be of a different tribe, maybe the Empire would be a Turkic one not a Mongolian one.

that presents a whole host of issues. what woudl the invasion route be? would they get far? what countries coudl they destroy, can they even reach Ankara, etc.

honestly, i cant think of anything beyond 1751. would Byzantium Realistically be like Switzerland? or would it intervene or take part in the various wars?

.. I briefly considered *someone* destroying the world with nukes in the late 1900s. i dropped that, since it would be way too much work to describe what was hit, what governments fell, which didn't and the new states.

...that and it would make Byzantium the strongest power in Europe...

Well, TLs are a whole lot of work, and good ones even more so. You've got a good outline here, so I would recommend taking this slowly and fleshing out each piece of the TL in chronological order. Don't try to finish it all at once. Just go one event at a time and follow things through to whatever seems realistic. If you have problems, then you have the entire Board to fall back on for help. Don't give up; you've got a very promising start there.
 
hey i just had a new idea form jsut now.

what if a passing Byzantine diplomat or trader encountered the very large mongol army somewhere to the north of the Aral sea?

this Byzantine Person could *somehow* manage to sneak into an enemy camp, gather all the plans they have, escape the camp, go to Constantinople, show them the plans, and a large Byzantine army ambushes them in the Caucasus?

is that a plausible thing or is it unrealistic to a point only possible in Hollywood films?

EDIT: by the way i was working on that time-line for over a year.
 
Yes, it sounds like Hollywood-born plot. Besides, what do you mean by "gathering" the Mongol plans? It'd make sense, if they're written somewhere. Problem: at that time plans were done purely orally. Maybe with the use of some maps. But of course there would be only a few maps and their lack would be instantly noticed.

I'll see if I have to sth to add about timeline later.
 
However, the Byzantines were also known for fielding a world class intelligence network. So even if they didn't have the exact battle plans or anything, they would have least known who the Mongols were and when they were coming.
 
Top