El Caudillo Andrés Novales: An Alternate History Scenario (Take 2)
- Thread starter ramones1986
- Start date
There was another Novales scenario where the first official Philippine flag (adopted 1897) was used as the flag of the country under Andres Novales.
You mean the Sun of May flag, Katipunan version? Red background instead or Argentinian blue?
Could work. The Argentinian flag has been used since 1812. Lots of Latin American nations got influenced by the Argentinian flag.
Dont know though if pure red background would work. While the color would be preferably not the same as the Spanish colors of yellow and red. I suppose you can still use the Philippine tricolors, red, blue and white influenced from what Novales saw in the Napoleonic wars via what the French were carrying.
The most common I see from flag shapes in the new South American nations circa 1823 was tricolor whether it be vertical or horizontal.
now that I think about it, you could keep a modified version of the OTL Philippine flag. But it'd have a different origin.
The blue and red represent the Manila coat of arms. And the triangle is an anting-anting, with the all-seeing eye of God in place of the sun.
That sealion flag looks good too.
The blue and red represent the Manila coat of arms. And the triangle is an anting-anting, with the all-seeing eye of God in place of the sun.
That sealion flag looks good too.
Oh I thought of the Philippine flag prototype with only sun and no stars.The blue and red represent the Manila coat of arms. And the triangle is an anting-anting, with the all-seeing eye of God in place of the sun.
That's actually nice, though honestly I'll use it as one of military flags.
Flag suggestion
How about copying the old coat of arms of Manila but instead of the castle on the red field, replace it with a rising golden sun? The blue field should remain the same, since the sea-lion is fucking cool. And yeah, kick the crown out.
As for the background, make it a triband of - from top to bottom - sky blue, white and red. With the new coat of arms superimposed on it.
How about copying the old coat of arms of Manila but instead of the castle on the red field, replace it with a rising golden sun? The blue field should remain the same, since the sea-lion is fucking cool.
And yeah, kick the crown out.As for the background, make it a triband of - from top to bottom - sky blue, white and red. With the new coat of arms superimposed on it.
The Sea Lion is a representation as colony of Spain. Any independence movement will not accept such colonial symbol retained.
The triangle, I dont know how Filipinos will conceptualize that without certain amount of influence from the Cuban Flag, which still doesnt exist in 1823.
The colors for the flag should be practical and symbolic.
Practical because in a battle vs Spain, Spain will be flying yellow and red colors. That means Philippine flag must show less red and yellow or none at all to avoid confusion in battles.
Symbolic, depending on Novales or the first users of the flag what those colors represent.
The triangle, I dont know how Filipinos will conceptualize that without certain amount of influence from the Cuban Flag, which still doesnt exist in 1823.
The colors for the flag should be practical and symbolic.
Practical because in a battle vs Spain, Spain will be flying yellow and red colors. That means Philippine flag must show less red and yellow or none at all to avoid confusion in battles.
Symbolic, depending on Novales or the first users of the flag what those colors represent.
How about Philippine horizontal tricolor with Sol de Mayo in the center?
The Governor-General's Counter-Offensive
From the balcony of the cathedral of the city of San Fernando, the temporary capital of the Colonial Government of the Philippines after the capture of the Walled City of Intramuros by rebel forces led by former Spanish Army captain Andrés Novales, Governor-General Juan Antonio Martínez has announced before the townfolk of the Pampango capital that the loyalist soldiers from the northern and central regions of Luzón would arrive to their town as they were preparing the capital and the whole province of Pampanga[1] from the "treacherous" rebels, as Martínez described Novales and his troops. It was somehow understandable that the Governor-General capitalized on the reputation of the Pampangos as one of the most loyal ethnic groups in the Spanish East Indies; in fact, Pampango men composed a significant percentage of men serving in the Spanish colonial army in the Philippines for centuries.
What the Governor-General didn't knew was how loyal the soldiers were for Spain. And especially for the men of Pampanga.
Rumors of possible defection of a large percentage of loyalist soldiers were persistent among their ranks in an almost consistent way. In such way, every soldier secretly developed suspicion of their colleagues, even to their closest friends. Indeed, the fear of treachery and being betrayed personally predominated the soldiers as they went to San Fernando for the defense of the town and the surrounding province of Pampanga.
Meanwhile in the rebel-held Intramuros, Novales and his men was preparing for another secret plan that would bring the rest of the island of Luzón under their control.
NOTE:
[1] The province of Pampanga in TTL includes the southern part of Tarlac.
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As if a lot of people at the time knew that. It's pretty easy to think of another meaning to the symbol.
How about the Philippine Eagle?
How about Freemasonry?
Sure can.
You dont need a lot of people, just the leaders. The concern of the masses shouldn't be an issue. Not everyone gets a vote for creating a flag. Even the US flag nor OTL present day Philippine flag was not conceptualized by majority vote of the total population of the colony. It was conceptualized by the intellectuals/leaders or at least educated on the symbols of these flags.
Even Bonifacio didnt have to consult every member of the Katipunan including rank and file to ask about what the flag of the Katipunan should be.
Sure can If some explorer/naturalist go deep into the Samar jungles and discover them pre 1823. Discovery of Philippine eagle in otl is 1896.
However, the concept of eagle is doable. Novales would have seen the Napoleonic Eagle.
Sure can be influenced by Freemasonry if you can connect all the 1823 leaders as members of Freemasonry. But that would mean a triangle straight up not sideways.
The problem with the Philippines 1890s triangle concept is it is unique like the Cuban triangle. The triangle needs to be sideways which cannot be taken from anting anting or the Freemason triangle. I am not saying it is not doable but Someone needs to have slack time in a neutral territory like Cuba's Narciso López in the 1840s New York and dream about that triangle sideways.
There doesn't seem to be a Masonic tradition in the Philippines until after this period. Once the Philippines gains its independence, some of its liberal intellectuals may pick it up, but that's a couple decades away (OTL, the first Philippine Masonic lodge was formed in the 1850s).
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What about a blue and white vertical bicolor with the sun of May at the center, or the sealion (decidedly without a crown) on the blue part? It honors Our Lady of La Naval and is far from the Spanish flag.
I did say vertical bicolor, and with a sealion.
Let's see... along the lines of...
Party per pale azure and argent, sealion Or rampant dexter. Or something like that.
The Suggestion: Defense of Bulacan
A suggestion from Captain General Mariano Novales has intrigued everyone present within the four walls of Palacio del Gobernador, but at the same time fascinated his younger brother, former Spanish Army captain and rebel leader Andrés Novales, as the threat of attack from the loyalist forces preoccupied the rebels, both within and outside the Walled City of Intramuros.
Within the course of three to four days, the defected loyalist soldiers from the vicinity of Manila and surrounding provinces gathered in front of Palacio del Gobernador to hear the captain proclaimed their new mission:
In effect, the defected loyalist soldiers, all of them previously positions in the fortifications and other important military installations, were immediately replaced by the rebels whom they chose to surrender days earlier. Upon their arrival to different parts of the province, most especially in strategically located forts in places like the Pampanga River near the town of Hagonoy, they were surprised that they were greeted by their colleagues who secretly defected to the rebels and never joined the reinforcements on defending neighboring Pampanga.
On the eight of June, an informer told Andrés Novales about the exodus of the remaining loyalist soldiers to the province of Pampanga, in particular the city of San Fernando. The captain's response was immediate, but the question was would he himself lead the campaign, or let someone lead for him?
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While Bulacan is indeed mostly flat, I suspect that there are forts and other important strategic defenses (Pampanga River, for example).