Jutland avoided

Ato

I have seen a lot of threads about differing outcomes to the battle of Jutland, and it seems to me that little overall difference occurs whether or not a few more dreadnoughts are lost on one side or the other. (For timelines within the bounds of accepted realism)

A much more interesting scenario for me is if Jutland, and really any significant fleet engagement, is avoided during the First World War.

There appears to be many possible long and short term consequences of the dreadnoughts and battlecruisers not being tested in full scale combat.
Without the lessons learned, would there be an even greater shock when airpower eclipses the battlewagons?

If the Royal Navy isn't dealt the embarrassing result of Jutland, do some of their bad habits of the period continue on until WWII?

What of the HSF? Their moment of glory is denied, but so too perhaps are the humiliating mutinies towards the end of the war.
 
GarethC

GarethC

von Pohl avoids his fatal liver cancer, and thus remains in command of the HSF. Scheer does not get a chance to try to engage the Home Fleet. If one of von Pohl's unambitious sorties results in a German capital ship being mined (or possibly torpedoed? Not sure about RN submarine operations in the North Sea), the Kaiser might offer additional constraints on putting the HSF in harm's way.

Continually missing Pohl in his timorous sailings may actually push better coordination between Room 40, Scapa, and ships at sea, in order to expedite attempts to intercept him.

Beatty may have instituted cavalier powder-handling to speed up his rate of fire, but that was not common across the RN.

Assuming that the Central Powers lose, then some of the HSF, even if scuttled - or at least Baden anyway - will get used for gunnery practice and reveal the poor penetration of the RN shells.

I'm not sure what else you are looking for?
 

ivanotter

Interesting thought.

It might be an idea to look at the lessons learned from Jutland and then erase those. That should give us an indication of where developments would then go.

So, what were the lessons learned from Jutland?

1) Storing of powder kegs
2) Torpedoes are dangerous
3) ??

Ivan
 
NHBL

NHBL

Armor schemes

The USN was the only one to introduce "All or nothing" armor before Jutland, and other nations might develop it much later, if at all. This armor was later described as "Post Jutland armor before Jutland."
 

Cryhavoc101

zoomar said:
The Nevada class
Click to expand...

Ah of course

And this coupled with tests carried out on vessels post war would lead to the all or nothing scheme taken to its logical extreme in the post treaty Nelrods and French Dunkerque's.

Im sure that the Royal navy would have other opportunities to have their ships take damage during the war!
 

ivanotter

Jutland avoided: The fleets never make contact?
Just sailing around a bit in the North Sea?
No Danish trawler to alert anybody?

Could it even have happened?

Ivan
 

Zheng He

What does this do for post-war German naval construction? The very expensive and manpower intensive HSF basically spends the entire war sitting in port scratching their rear ends. Regardless of what type of government Germany ends up with in the 20s and then 30s I can't see the navy having any credibility at all when it comes to devoting resources to its surface fleet.
 
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