McClellan Elected in 1864, but the Union Still Wins

McClellan winning the 1864 election is used as a part of a lot of CSA wins timelines, but there hasn't been much done with the electoral victory as a POD in itself. So what if McClellan wins the 1864 election? While it is out there in possibility, McClellan could win if you flip the close states of New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and New Hampshire, as well as Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan, which were all within a margin of 20,000 votes.

The thing with a McClellan victory is that Lincoln is still in office until March of 1865. By then the Civil War is already practically over already in OTL, but with Lincoln losing the election I'd think he would do all that he could to ensure the war is over and the CSA has surrendered by the time he leaves office. So what would a McClellan presidency look like in this case?

Here's the possible electoral map.

McClellan Wins 1864.png
 
If memory serves, President Lincoln was pretty sure that a win by the opposition in the '64 election would indicate a shift in public will from victory in war, to peace at any price. He was prepared, in the event that he lost his bid for a second term, to assist the new President-Elect in seeking this end.

In all honest, I do not see a President McClellan being able or willing to prosecute that war as President Lincoln was. I simply do not see the Union winning.
 
During his election campaign McClellan supported the continuation of the war and restoration of the Union but did not support the abolition of slavery. The Democrats, as a party, ran on an anti-war policy, calling for the immediate cessation of all hostilities and the start of negotiations for settlement of the conflict.

If McClellan won the election, therefore, he would be forced by the popular opinion of his party to call an armistice and begin negotiation for the end of the war. However, he was not fool enough to voluntarilly end a war that his side was winning and was far more likely to try to offer insulting terms so they would be refused and he continue the conflict and win it and be imortalized as the President who saved the Union.

Thus any peace negotiations would be undermined by President McClellan's actions. This would not make a settlement impossible but it would make it very difficult, and the armistice might last the year or more.

In the event of the negotiations breaking down McClellan would get his way and war would continue until it was won, in the event of the negotiations being successful and the Confederacy confirmed as independent - which would be the only way they would be successful - I would not be surprised to see either McClellan resign his office in disgust or else persecute all those who forced him to undertake the negotiations in the first place and destroy his own government in the process.
 
IOTL it was the fall of Atlanta which made it clear that the CSA was essentially doomed. If this were delayed to shortly after the election, you might see McClellan win but Northern public opinion then shift towards continuing the war.
 
If memory serves, President Lincoln was pretty sure that a win by the opposition in the '64 election would indicate a shift in public will from victory in war, to peace at any price. He was prepared, in the event that he lost his bid for a second term, to assist the new President-Elect in seeking this end.

In all honest, I do not see a President McClellan being able or willing to prosecute that war as President Lincoln was. I simply do not see the Union winning.

By now, I have given up on persuading people that McClellan would not have accepted disunion--no matter how many times I quote his explicit statements to that effect ("... the Union must be preserved at all hazards. I could not look in the face of my gallant comrades of the army and navy, who have survived so many bloody battles, and tell them that their labors and the sacrifice of so many of our slain and wounded brethren had been in vain; that we had abandoned that Union for which we had so often periled our lives...no peace can be permanent without union."--just how explicit does he have to get?!) they say that he didn't really mean it, or that he couldn't have continued the war even if he wanted to, that it would be politically impossible to do so. To which William Freehling IMO has convincingly replied that McClellan could not afford *not* to win the war--after all, those who favored the restoration of the Union, by war if necessary, would be a decisive majority of the Northern people (virtually all Republicans plus a large percentage--almost certainly a majority--of Democrats). Even the Chicago platform talked about restoring the Union on the basis of "the federal union of the states"--and even if one (dubiously) regards it as a peace-at-any-price platform, McClellan repudiated it as so interpreted.

But let's assume that Lincoln was right when he said McClellan could not preserve the Union--unless it had already been 'saved" before he took office. I will here reproduce an old soc.history.what-if post of mine:

***

Lincoln's confidential cabinet memo of August 23, 1864, which spoke about
saving the Union between the election and the inauguration was written
*before* McClellan made it clear that he would not accept any peace without
reunion. Even apart from McClellan's stated reason for this position--that
he could not look his old comrades in the face otherwise--sheer political
necessity would have required McClellan to pursue the war to the end, as I
have discussed in a previous post. Nevertheless, let's say that (a)
Lincoln is still convinced in November that McClellan could not save the
Union, and (b) that McClellan wins. The question is how Lincoln would
"save the Union" before Inauguration Day. Wiliam C. Davis makes an
interesting speculative analysis of this in his chapter "The Turning Point
That Wasn't: The Confederates and the Election of 1864" in *The Cause
Lost: Myths and Realities of the Confederacy* (University Press of Kansas
1996). What follows is based on Davis' analysis.

If Lincoln had been defeated, we must assume that it was because Sherman
failed to take Atlanta by early November. There are only three logical
reasons why that might happen: (1) Sherman was vigrously attacked and
pushed back in late spring or early summer by Joseph E. Johnston before
penetrating deep into Georgia. This is so completely out of character for
Johnston that it may be dismissed as too implausible. (2) The Yankees
invested Johnston or his successor Hood in Atlanta and had the Confederate
commander virtually surrounded and under siege but had not taken the city.
(3) Sherman was driven back from Atlanta's outskirts by desperate and
costly assaults in the summer by Hood.

Now either (2) or (3) (dismissing (1) as implausible) still leaves Sherman
with the upper hand in Georgia. Even if Hood had pushed Sherman away from
Atlanta, it would have been at the cost of crippling casualties to the Army
of Tennessee, as is demonstrated by the assaults Hood did launch during the
battles for Atlanta and in the subsequent Tennessee campaign. Thus
Sherman, with numerical and logistical superiority, could have divided his
command, left part of it to hold a weakened Hood in Georgia and sent the
rest to Virginia. If, however, Hood had been besieged, Sherman would have
had more than sufficient troops to man his own trenches while detaching up
to 40,000 men to help Grant take Richmond by March 4. As William C. Davis
remarks:

"Whether Sherman sent them by rail through Chattanooga and the North, or
overland, where there were no Confederate forces to impede their progress,
in any case Grant could have had a reinforcement of fresh troops in numbers
equal to Lee's entire army available before the end of the year. Grant
would have opted for the overland route, which, though slower, would still
have had Sherman approach Lee from the southwest, thus cutting off Lee's
only route of retreat from Petersburg. Contrary to popular misconception,
Atlanta was always an expendable objective for Grant...

"What we have then are Lincoln's determination to win before March 4,
Grant's determination that Richmond and Lee were psychologically the
decisive targets, and Sherman's ruthless dedication to punishing the
Confederacy, along with the availability of his large army, relatively
fresh, seasoned at hard marches, and not worn down and exhausted like the
Army of the Potomac. Whether surrounded and overwhelmed in the trenches,
or cut off on an attempt to break out and retreat, Lee, his army, and
Richmond as a result would inevitably have fallen before March 4. The only
imaginable alternative to this scenario is the inconceivable notion that
Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman would all suddently have run against type,
turned their backs on the convictions and plans they had expressed
repeatedly in 1864, and sat back and left the initiative to the
Confederates."

The fall of Richmond would not by itself necessarily have been the end of
the war--there would still be Hood's army in Georgia to mop up--but the end
would be so clearly in sight that it would be insane for McClellan to
snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He had had few enough triumphs in
the war, and was hardly likely to deprive himself of the ultimate one.
 
McClellan winning the 1864 election is used as a part of a lot of CSA wins timelines, but there hasn't been much done with the electoral victory as a POD in itself. So what if McClellan wins the 1864 election? While it is out there in possibility, McClellan could win if you flip the close states of New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and New Hampshire, as well as Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan, which were all within a margin of 20,000 votes.

The thing with a McClellan victory is that Lincoln is still in office until March of 1865. By then the Civil War is already practically over already in OTL, but with Lincoln losing the election I'd think he would do all that he could to ensure the war is over and the CSA has surrendered by the time he leaves office. So what would a McClellan presidency look like in this case?

Here's the possible electoral map.

Wisconsin went for Lincoln by 55.9%-44.1%, Michigan by 55.1%-44.9%. http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1864.txt "Less than 20,000 votes" was a big percentage of the vote in such small states. I cannot see them as voting Democratic unless the war was going *much* worse than in OTL. I don't think even the failure to capture Atlanta would be enough--after all, there were other Union victories in August-October 1864, like Sheridan in the Valley and Farragut at Mobile Bay.
 
And did Lincoln perhaps overstate the case?

If he loses the election, the new, and presumably Democratic HoR won't meet until Dec 1865, unless Mac calls it sooner. In Lincoln's place, my first order of business would be to have Congress pass military appropriations, Draft Laws etc during its lame-duck session, sufficient to enable President McClellan to prosecute the war through 1865 without needing to call the new one ahead of time. Could the Confederacy really carry on that long?
 
And did Lincoln perhaps overstate the case?

If he loses the election, the new, and presumably Democratic HoR won't meet until Dec 1865, unless Mac calls it sooner. In Lincoln's place, my first order of business would be to have Congress pass military appropriations, Draft Laws etc during its lame-duck session, sufficient to enable President McClellan to prosecute the war through 1865 without needing to call the new one ahead of time. Could the Confederacy really carry on that long?

I'm not convinced that they would, or even could. By the summer of 1864(assuming that's the POD), the C.S.A. was already in a heap of trouble, and probably would have required a miracle to even save, let alone emerge even partly victorious. McClellan can't possibly lose if things go as OTL, and even if a Confederate miracle does occur, he'd have to either really bungle something or get a streak of bad luck.
 
Last edited:
Wisconsin went for Lincoln by 55.9%-44.1%, Michigan by 55.1%-44.9%. http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1864.txt "Less than 20,000 votes" was a big percentage of the vote in such small states. I cannot see them as voting Democratic unless the war was going *much* worse than in OTL. I don't think even the failure to capture Atlanta would be enough--after all, there were other Union victories in August-October 1864, like Sheridan in the Valley and Farragut at Mobile Bay.
Huh, that's weird. There's a discrepancy between those numbers and the ones on the electionatlas site. There, Michigan is shown as only a 53-46 margin. Anyway, you could just remove Wisconsin and replace it with Maryland, which is only an 8,000 vote difference and still get the same result. It's still unlikely, but in the realm of possibility. People on here have flipped 55-44 states plenty of times in alternate election results without anyone complaining.

And did Lincoln perhaps overstate the case?

If he loses the election, the new, and presumably Democratic HoR won't meet until Dec 1865, unless Mac calls it sooner. In Lincoln's place, my first order of business would be to have Congress pass military appropriations, Draft Laws etc during its lame-duck session, sufficient to enable President McClellan to prosecute the war through 1865 without needing to call the new one ahead of time. Could the Confederacy really carry on that long?
Especially since McClellan isn't even in office until March 4, and in OTL the war ended a month later. I think with Lincoln, Grant, and the Republican Congress knowing they have a deadline (and I can't imagine Lincoln likes or trusts McClellan much at this point), that they could hasten the efforts to end the war and get a Confederate surrender by March.


I'm mostly curious about what a McClellan presidency would look like regarding Reconstruction since pretty much every McClellan presidency in AH involves a Confederate victory. The Thirteenth Amendment would be passed by Congress in the lame duck session and then be up to the states, but the Fourteenth Amendment wouldn't be. And even with a presidential defeat in 1864, the Republicans are still probably going to retain control of both houses of Congress since the Unionists generally split on which party they returned to.
 
If McClellan won the election, therefore, he would be forced by the popular opinion of his party to call an armistice and begin negotiation for the end of the war.

More likely he would see his victory as support for his repudiation of the party platform. He'll probably rely on a combination of War Democrats and Republicans in Congress to outflank the Copperheads. By the time McClellan gets elected, most of the fight in the South is gone anyway. By the time he is inaugurated, the war is almost over. Whatever little needs to be done, McClellan will get support for.

The only significant change I see is how the government handles the protection of emanicipated slaves after the war.

Given the nature of his nomination and election, McClellan is unlikely to be very popular with his own party. He will also be fighting with the Radical Republicans who will argue Lincoln won the war anyway. His presidency is unlikely to be successful.
 
I'm not convinced that they would, or even could. By the summer of 1864(assuming that's the POD), the C.S.A. was already in a heap of trouble, and probably would have required a miracle to save. McClellan can't possibly lose if things go as OTL.

But McClellan winning the election is going to require things to not go as OTL.

I don't think the CSA has a chance of it in the field if the Union armies keep pressing as OTL, but assuming that they do is not something I'd want to take for granted. Any sufficiently decisive fighting to keep Sherman from Atlanta (for example) is going to do a number on the Western armies - who are no more immune to shell shock (to use a slightly later phrase) and other concerns that cause armies undergoing what the AotP went through in 1864 OTL to be less than at their peak.

How much more blood and treasure are the people of the North willing to give to support the war? How much is McClellan going to be able to rouse enthusiasm to do so even if he had his heart in it?
 
Huh, that's weird. There's a discrepancy between those numbers and the ones on the electionatlas site. There, Michigan is shown as only a 53-46 margin. Anyway, you could just remove Wisconsin and replace it with Maryland, which is only an 8,000 vote difference and still get the same result. It's still unlikely, but in the realm of possibility. People on here have flipped 55-44 states plenty of times in alternate election results without anyone complaining.

Especially since McClellan isn't even in office until March 4, and in OTL the war ended a month later. I think with Lincoln, Grant, and the Republican Congress knowing they have a deadline (and I can't imagine Lincoln likes or trusts McClellan much at this point), that they could hasten the efforts to end the war and get a Confederate surrender by March.


I'm mostly curious about what a McClellan presidency would look like regarding Reconstruction since pretty much every McClellan presidency in AH involves a Confederate victory. The Thirteenth Amendment would be passed by Congress in the lame duck session and then be up to the states, but the Fourteenth Amendment wouldn't be. And even with a presidential defeat in 1864, the Republicans are still probably going to retain control of both houses of Congress since the Unionists generally split on which party they returned to.

I think I know the source of the discrepancies in Michigan: it's whether you count the soldiers' votes or not. In 1864 the Michigan legislature passed a law allowing them to vote. In January 1865 the Michigan Supreme Court declared the law unconstitutional, but the legislature ignored the decision, and allowed legislators who would have been defeated by the soldiers' vote to take their seats anyway. http://books.google.com/books?id=HqGWEAnByeMC&pg=PA332 Lincoln would win the state either way, but it would make a difference in his margin of victory.

Presumably if the race in Michigan were closer, and the soldiers' vote would have made a difference one way or the other, the Michigan Secretary of State, who was a Republican (James B. Porter) would have certified the Republican slate of electors as winning, and the Republican Congress would go along with him. (Even if a Democratic Congress were elected in 1864, that would not be the Congress that counted the ballots; until the 20th Amendment, it was the old Congress that did that.)

Personally, given the relative stability of political allegiances in the North in the Civil War era (and the Gilded Age that followed) I think that anyone who wants to reverse a 55-45 result in a state has to show a very substantial reason to do so.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Nicely done, Dave...

By now, I have given up on persuading people that McClellan would not have accepted disunion--no matter how many times I quote his explicit statements to that effect ("... the Union must be preserved at all hazards. I could not look in the face of my gallant comrades of the army and navy, who have survived so many bloody battles, and tell them that their labors and the sacrifice of so many of our slain and wounded brethren had been in vain; that we had abandoned that Union for which we had so often periled our lives...no peace can be permanent without union."--just how explicit does he have to get?!) they say that he didn't really mean it, or that he couldn't have continued the war even if he wanted to, that it would be politically impossible to do so. To which William Freehling IMO has convincingly replied that McClellan could not afford *not* to win the war--after all, those who favored the restoration of the Union, by war if necessary, would be a decisive majority of the Northern people (virtually all Republicans plus a large percentage--almost certainly a majority--of Democrats). Even the Chicago platform talked about restoring the Union on the basis of "the federal union of the states"--and even if one (dubiously) regards it as a peace-at-any-price platform, McClellan repudiated it as so interpreted.

But let's assume that Lincoln was right when he said McClellan could not preserve the Union--unless it had already been 'saved" before he took office. I will here reproduce an old soc.history.what-if post of mine:

***

Lincoln's confidential cabinet memo of August 23, 1864, which spoke about
saving the Union between the election and the inauguration was written
*before* McClellan made it clear that he would not accept any peace without
reunion. Even apart from McClellan's stated reason for this position--that
he could not look his old comrades in the face otherwise--sheer political
necessity would have required McClellan to pursue the war to the end, as I
have discussed in a previous post. Nevertheless, let's say that (a)
Lincoln is still convinced in November that McClellan could not save the
Union, and (b) that McClellan wins. The question is how Lincoln would
"save the Union" before Inauguration Day. Wiliam C. Davis makes an
interesting speculative analysis of this in his chapter "The Turning Point
That Wasn't: The Confederates and the Election of 1864" in *The Cause
Lost: Myths and Realities of the Confederacy* (University Press of Kansas
1996). What follows is based on Davis' analysis.

If Lincoln had been defeated, we must assume that it was because Sherman
failed to take Atlanta by early November. There are only three logical
reasons why that might happen: (1) Sherman was vigrously attacked and
pushed back in late spring or early summer by Joseph E. Johnston before
penetrating deep into Georgia. This is so completely out of character for
Johnston that it may be dismissed as too implausible. (2) The Yankees
invested Johnston or his successor Hood in Atlanta and had the Confederate
commander virtually surrounded and under siege but had not taken the city.
(3) Sherman was driven back from Atlanta's outskirts by desperate and
costly assaults in the summer by Hood.

Now either (2) or (3) (dismissing (1) as implausible) still leaves Sherman
with the upper hand in Georgia. Even if Hood had pushed Sherman away from
Atlanta, it would have been at the cost of crippling casualties to the Army
of Tennessee, as is demonstrated by the assaults Hood did launch during the
battles for Atlanta and in the subsequent Tennessee campaign. Thus
Sherman, with numerical and logistical superiority, could have divided his
command, left part of it to hold a weakened Hood in Georgia and sent the
rest to Virginia. If, however, Hood had been besieged, Sherman would have
had more than sufficient troops to man his own trenches while detaching up
to 40,000 men to help Grant take Richmond by March 4. As William C. Davis
remarks:

"Whether Sherman sent them by rail through Chattanooga and the North, or
overland, where there were no Confederate forces to impede their progress,
in any case Grant could have had a reinforcement of fresh troops in numbers
equal to Lee's entire army available before the end of the year. Grant
would have opted for the overland route, which, though slower, would still
have had Sherman approach Lee from the southwest, thus cutting off Lee's
only route of retreat from Petersburg. Contrary to popular misconception,
Atlanta was always an expendable objective for Grant...

"What we have then are Lincoln's determination to win before March 4,
Grant's determination that Richmond and Lee were psychologically the
decisive targets, and Sherman's ruthless dedication to punishing the
Confederacy, along with the availability of his large army, relatively
fresh, seasoned at hard marches, and not worn down and exhausted like the
Army of the Potomac. Whether surrounded and overwhelmed in the trenches,
or cut off on an attempt to break out and retreat, Lee, his army, and
Richmond as a result would inevitably have fallen before March 4. The only
imaginable alternative to this scenario is the inconceivable notion that
Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman would all suddently have run against type,
turned their backs on the convictions and plans they had expressed
repeatedly in 1864, and sat back and left the initiative to the
Confederates."

The fall of Richmond would not by itself necessarily have been the end of
the war--there would still be Hood's army in Georgia to mop up--but the end
would be so clearly in sight that it would be insane for McClellan to
snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He had had few enough triumphs in
the war, and was hardly likely to deprive himself of the ultimate one.


Nicely done, Dave...

Best,
 
I agree with most here and think Little Mac would have pushed the war to its conclusion in the long run. Whatever his faults he was definitely a WAR Democrat and I think he was sincere when he said " I could not look in the face of my gallant comrades of the army and navy, who have survived so many bloody battles, and tell them that their labors and the sacrifice of so many of our slain and wounded brethren had been in vain; that we had abandoned that Union for which we had so often periled our lives." After all he knew a lot of the people who were killed or wounded. It was personal for him. He would have to accept that some of his friends would have died meaningless deaths because of him. I don't think he could accept that. Whenever I have speculated on a CSA victory I had Mac winning the election and then dying before he could see it through to victory.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
The problem with that, however, is even if

I agree with most here and think Little Mac would have pushed the war to its conclusion in the long run. Whatever his faults he was definitely a WAR Democrat and I think he was sincere when he said " I could not look in the face of my gallant comrades of the army and navy, who have survived so many bloody battles, and tell them that their labors and the sacrifice of so many of our slain and wounded brethren had been in vain; that we had abandoned that Union for which we had so often periled our lives." After all he knew a lot of the people who were killed or wounded. It was personal for him. He would have to accept that some of his friends would have died meaningless deaths because of him. I don't think he could accept that. Whenever I have speculated on a CSA victory I had Mac winning the election and then dying before he could see it through to victory.

The problem with that, however, is even if Pendleton gets sworn into office in the spring of 1865, the rebellion is over in April.

Anyone actually think Grant is going to stop fighting between November and March?

Best,
 
The problem with that, however, is even if Pendleton gets sworn into office in the spring of 1865, the rebellion is over in April.

Anyone actually think Grant is going to stop fighting between November and March?

Best,

Winter campaigning is a female dog-animal times three, though.

This will hit the ANV more than the AotP, but even Grant can't negate that.
 
The problem with that, however, is even if Pendleton gets sworn into office in the spring of 1865, the rebellion is over in April.

Anyone actually think Grant is going to stop fighting between November and March?

Best,

You would have to slow them down for Mac to win in the first place. The US Army won't be in the same exact place.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Except the AoTP was already besieging Richmond in June, 1864

Winter campaigning is a female dog-animal times three, though.

This will hit the ANV more than the AotP, but even Grant can't negate that.


Except the AoTP was already besieging Richmond in June, 1864, long before the election, much less the swearing in...

Best,
 
Except the AoTP was already besieging Richmond in June, 1864, long before the election, much less the swearing in...

Best,

But if we're talking Grant doing more than he did OTL, which I thought you were implying, that I am less than convinced of.

Certainly not going to let go once he's grabbed Lee by the balls and started squeezing, not without someone swapping him with a body double or something - that we agree on completely.
 
I counter with a different electoral map:

genusmap.php


If Lincoln only narrowly loses the electoral vote, the Republicans in Congress are going to count the electoral votes from Tennessee and Louisiana and throw the election back to Lincoln. So in order to win, McClellan needs to win by a large enough margin to overcome those additional seventeen electoral votes. However events turning in such a way to allow McClellan to claim a victory of this size would also have likely resulted in someone other than Lincoln being nominated by the Union Party, for which there are numerous possibilities. Depending on the candidate in question (among whom was discussed were Butler, Hamlin, Chase, Fremont, Grant, etc) the results could vary wildly.


 
Top