Modern name for Ottoman Empire?

Midas

Suppose the Ottoman Empire endures WWI; either by staying neutral, or perhaps a slightly earlier PoD à-la Abdul's old stuff- whatever. There's no pulling them apart, nationalism is contained or directed more towards the state and it encompasses its historical borders.

Now as I understand it, historically it was commonly either called "Turkey", the "Sublime Porte" or the "Ottoman Empire" in English; would these names persist to the modern day? Which would be most prevalent? The Ottomans called themselves "Devlet-i Âliye" or "Memâlik-i Mahrûse"; which are very different (well not against the Sublime thing), would there be any diplomatic impetus back then to try and get English-speaking folks to refer to the state differently?

I don't know whether Turkey had the same nationalist connotations back then in English. Perhaps Sublime Porte would simply be the diplomatic language used and Turkey the common name. But anyway- thoughts?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
I think it'd likely remain as "the Ottoman Empire" (or OE) in formal discourse, but "Turkey" for short.
 

EternalCynic

Here's a train of thought: let's say the Ottoman Empire, in disarray and bled dry during WW1, is influenced by a charismatic Muslim cleric who preaches an ideology which combines political Islam with communism, claiming that Marx reinterpreted the Prophet's vision for the world in modern day terms.

The Sultanate is overthrown in a coup and the Ottoman Empire leaves the Central Powers, undergoing a civil war which involves foreign intervention. Eventually the areas of the former Empire are consolidated by a new "People's Majlis Caliphate", to create the first communist state in the world.

I'm thinking of this as part of my future TL.
 

Minchandre

The Sublime Porte refers to the Ottoman government in the same way that the White House refers to the American - it's a physical object (in this case, the gate to the Topkapi Palace). Yay synecdoche! The point is, "the Sublime Porte" may continue to refer to the government, but not to the nation. In fact, I doubt it'll be used to refer to the government assuming the parliament grows any kind of significant teeth - in the UK, for instance, you seldom hear "Buckingham Palace" as synecdoche for the Government, but 10 Downing Street is used.

The term Ottoman Empire is unlikely to continue. The alternate name, the Sublime Ottoman State, may continue, but I expect something more like the Ottoman Federation (assuming that the Arabs are in fact given some more say in things). Something like "The Federation of Turks and Arabs" is possible, or "The Federation of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Hejaz, and Arabia", or even possibly just "The Federation of Turkey and Arabia". In any circumstance, I suspect "Turkey" will continue as the short name for some time...unless someone decides to popularize "Ottomania" or the like. On the other hand, there's no common short form for "the Czech Republic" in American English, so you might see one of the long forms, if it isn't too long.
 

Super_Cool

Why can't it stay "the Ottoman Empire"?

We have the United States of America, the United Kingdom, the Czech Republic, the Philippines, and probably other 'the's around.

Having another one won't hurt, especially one that have the awesome sounding "empire" at the end.
 

Gen_Patton

@ Super_Cool:

In normal every day speech, the United States of America are referred to as the United States or the US. Same goes for the United Kingdom or UK. The Czech Republic is known as the Czechs and the Philippines is a one word name, you just can't shorten it much more.

The Ottoman Empire may be known by many names, but I also believe it will be called Turkey and its people the Turks.
 
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Tim Thomason

Probably just Turkey, since that's what they were calling it back before 1923 and all. Maybe like Greece (Hellenic Republic) it'd have a weird official name ("the Sublime Ottoman Empire") that wouldn't be used in public discourse.

And probably like Canada, it'd get rid of the confusing official name and just become "Turkey."
 

recklesspenance

I like Anatolia as an alternative title. Especially because it offers English speaking pedants the irresistible opportunity to correct people who use it, and remind them that, no, you're forgetting the existence of Thrace. (Assuming the state has the same borders, naturally. :))
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
It would probably be like the UK: officially being known as the Ottoman Empire, but often (incorrectly) called "Turkey" in the same way that the UK is often incorrectly called "England".
 

Hörnla

"Federation of Turkey and Arabia" is rather more probable, I agree, if we assume that the POD means that the pre-1914 borders remain more or less intact.

I very much assume that a continued OE would at least have to pay lip-service to the Arab element in its outfit.

If it ceases to be monarchy, the term Ottoman will be more and more inappropriate anyways, IMHO.

On the other hand, if the name should reflect more unity instead of stressing these two elements, I would suggest the "Federation of Islamic Nations". (Google says: İslam Milletler Federasyonu, therefore short IMF).

Butterfly: the International Monetary Fund might need a different name. ;)

This term would also make the inclusion of other regions well possible (just like the terms USA or EU), clearly implying the heritage of the Caliphate.
 

Linkwerk

Thande said:
It would probably be like the UK: officially being known as the Ottoman Empire, but often (incorrectly) called "Turkey" in the same way that the UK is often incorrectly called "England".
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Probably this. Ethnic Kurdish/Arab/Armenian students abroad would constantly give deep sighs about how, yes, they come from Turkey, but no, they aren't Turks.

...or they might not. A friend of mine is writing her PhD thesis on Arab identity in the Ottoman Empire, especially for students in France, and there's a surprising amount of ambiguity surrounding the term "Turk"....
 
Plumber

Plumber

Linkwerk said:
...or they might not. A friend of mine is writing her PhD thesis on Arab identity in the Ottoman Empire, especially for students in France, and there's a surprising amount of ambiguity surrounding the term "Turk"....
Click to expand...
Probably this. One does not need to speak Chinese* to be Chinese, one does not need to speak Turkish to be a Turk.

*Mandarin
 

Hobbesian

depends on whether the House of Osman survives and reigns. i can imagine Kemal and/or some likeminded generals perform a coup (3 pashas redux) and go for consitutional monarchy (a la UK) or downright republic (with Abdulmajid as the ceremonial caliph). with the inevitable loss of land due to nationalism, the "empire" can get demoted to kingdom or sultanate. if a cadet branch of the ruling house is placed as a figurehead by the aforementioned generals, the state might be named after him (a la rashid to saudi arabia).
 
iori

iori

It would most likely remain as the 'Ottoman Empire' or 'Ottoman Federation', they might go the San Marino rooute and have a fancy long name like 'the Most Sublime Empire of Ottomania' I suppose.


Something I've noticed thus far that really needs to be corrected is that they would not use the word Islamic or any other religious term in their name, or establish Ottoman identity as Islamic identity, that's simply not how the Ottomans worked, not to mention that sizable non-muslim groups.
 
iori

iori

Easterling said:
Ottoman Turkey? (Compare: Saudi Arabia)
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That would'nt work for two reasons.

A. At most modern Turkey only comprised half of the Ottomans territory, as opposed to Saudi Arabia the territory of which is completely on the Arabian peninsula and covers most of it.

B. It's redundant, before the fall of the OE and the jackass that was Ataturk, Turkey and Ottoman were used interchangably, it'd be like calling the U.S. 'American North America'.
 
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