Poll: Which invention would have benefited the Roman Empire (until 395 AD) most?

Which invention would have benefited the Roman Empire (until 395 AD) most?

  • The printing press

    Votes: 95 60.1%
  • The gunpowder

    Votes: 43 27.2%
  • The bicycle

    Votes: 4 2.5%
  • The windmill

    Votes: 14 8.9%
  • The microscope

    Votes: 2 1.3%

  • Total voters
    158
Bicycle is going to have at best a limited effect; and the effects from microscopes are also going to be limited until the major developments in biology occur, which even with microscopes, are a long way off for the Romans. Apparently, the Romans already had windmills.

So that leaves gunpowder and the printing press. Honestly, while I can definitely see how the printing press would revolutionize Roman society, until you have reforms such as widespread education, the effects of the printing press strike me as limited. It's simply one of those technological advancements which can have gigantic effects, but only in tandem with other social advancements. So, gunpowder.
 
I just might be wrong but Im pretty certain they had the iron plow.

As to the thread question, the printing press all the way, easier communication AND for me most importantly we would probably have way more Roman literature.

You're right. I was thinking of the mouldboard plow.
 
To use the printing press the Romans need to have paper, and that hadn't traveled from China yet. What is the point of having a printing press when modern paper doesn't exist?
 
Maybe the byzantines could somehow copy and implement China's paper printing technologies, and then some Greek Guttenburg would invent the printing press within a hundred years or so...
 
So that leaves gunpowder and the printing press. Honestly, while I can definitely see how the printing press would revolutionize Roman society, until you have reforms such as widespread education, the effects of the printing press strike me as limited. It's simply one of those technological advancements which can have gigantic effects, but only in tandem with other social advancements. So, gunpowder.
Hmm, but I think printing and literacy would grow together. If the Romans have printing (and cheap paper, which is a whole new set of problems, but I'll assume for now papermaking came with the printing press), they can put a reading primer in the hands of every Roman citizen. Part of the reason it was only the rich children becoming educated in , say, 1200 Ce Europe was because they had to pay a scribe to hand-copy them a scroll of Euclid or what have you. With cheap books, any family rich enough to have idle children is rich enough to have literate ones. It would revolutionize everything.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Having gunpowder is not much help without significant advances in metallurgy. Having a printing press means nothing if you don't know how to make paper.
 
Hmm, but I think printing and literacy would grow together. If the Romans have printing (and cheap paper, which is a whole new set of problems, but I'll assume for now papermaking came with the printing press), they can put a reading primer in the hands of every Roman citizen. Part of the reason it was only the rich children becoming educated in , say, 1200 Ce Europe was because they had to pay a scribe to hand-copy them a scroll of Euclid or what have you. With cheap books, any family rich enough to have idle children is rich enough to have literate ones. It would revolutionize everything.

That was certainly part of the issue; but I think there also was another, somewhat deeper issue; namely the will and the manpower to really build a mass-education system. In Rome, education was limited to the nobility in large part because educated slaves used to teach reading, writing, and other subjects were very expensive (which did have its part in driving up the cost of books). Education might not have been quite a 1% luxury, but 10% is probably not overshooting it too far.

Bear in mind, when I talk of education, I mean the sort of education which would eventually evolve into the famous classical education, comprising rhetoric, mathematics, literature, etc. To read and write was not too uncommon in Rome; enough men who could read and write and had no other job were willing to teach (it still wasn't a very high-class job) would teach in small towns; though even then, it was mostly the local gentry who made up most of the class. The printing press would probably have an effect in making the materials for a classical education more available to more people.

There's a somewhat deeper problem, of course, which is a cultural issue. I think it's worth mentioning at this point that many ordinary Romans and many slaves could read and write for the above reasons (in the Empire, the personal secretaries of many emperors and influential men were often freedmen whom these men trusted), but mass education of the commoner, and especially slaves, could easily open cans of worms which no Roman wanted opened. I think that if you want to reap benefits from mass education and printing, you would first have to overcome this wall. It took a very long time OTL, and needed the pushing of the Enlightenment, and the Romans have much more serious existential reasons to want to avoid this as much as possible, namely, if slaves and the very poor start to read and write, for how long until they use their educations to overturn their rightful place in the world?
 
To use the printing press the Romans need to have paper, and that hadn't traveled from China yet. What is the point of having a printing press when modern paper doesn't exist?

I personally would consider the term "printing press" to actually include the entire set of connected technologies -- the printing press itself, movable metal type, paper, and a suitable printing ink (which bears little resemblance to traditional writing inks).
 
I still hold that the best thing for Rome is agricultural advancements which increase their food supply significantly. All of this stuff about guns and reading and looking at tiny things and riding bikes really pales in comparison to the average Roman having much more ability to feed themselves. If I had to pick from the things on the list I'd go for the windmill (even if I'm fairly certain it existed at the time) because it is probably the closest thing to what I'd say would help Roman people on the list.
 
As another poster pointed out, the printing press would also have a stabilizing affect by allowing information to flow faster and more reliably. This would especially help with the wave of civil wars and usurpations that devastated the Roman Empire.
 

scholar

Banned
Maybe the byzantines could somehow copy and implement China's paper printing technologies, and then some Greek Guttenburg would invent the printing press within a hundred years or so...
China had a fixed printing press, as well as "stamp" like instruments, in the works about a century before the cutoff date. They literally would only need to figure out how to make it a movable printing press. Without the daunting amount of characters, its a much more easily manageable move than it was in China.
 
Personally, I would have put the stirrup on the poll instead of gunpowder, making it a more debatable choice.

It's not called stirrup, it's called stapeda. :D

And just to disent, i'm going to go with the microscope. The microscope implies a degree of knowledge of lenses and the laws of optics. After someone having invented the microscope, someone else would be able to reverse-engineer it, and create telescopes, binoculars and stereoscopes, all of them of great militar utility.

The germ theory wouldn't take too long to develop if the physicians begin to exhaustively examine the "humors" of diseased people under the microscope, and compare them with "healthy humors". The humor theory itself would collapse very quickly.
 

Dorozhand

Banned
As amusing as it is to imagine Roman cavalrymen riding armored bicycles into battle, the Printing press would have been a godsend for the Romans. Gunpowder is a close second, but to control the hearts of the people is often better in the long run than having the most guns in their back.
 
As amusing as it is to imagine Roman cavalrymen riding armored bicycles into battle, the Printing press would have been a godsend for the Romans. Gunpowder is a close second, but to control the hearts of the people is often better in the long run than having the most guns in their back.

Honestly how does this result in Rome controlling the hearts and minds of the people? If anything the printing press was one of the big advancements that helped lead to nationalism and to rebellious movements within a nation becoming more powerful. The Roman State will hardly have a monopoly on the printing press and various rebellious elements will also be capable of using it too.
 

scholar

Banned
Honestly how does this result in Rome controlling the hearts and minds of the people? If anything the printing press was one of the big advancements that helped lead to nationalism and to rebellious movements within a nation becoming more powerful. The Roman State will hardly have a monopoly on the printing press and various rebellious elements will also be capable of using it too.
Um... not really.

The Printing Press unified nations into being and united people by language increasing both uniformity in regions and uniting peoples in opposition to something else. Without the printing press the thirteen colonies would never have united and probably would not have succeeded in the rebellion. The printing press united the many German and Italian states and helped ferment their union. In countries that had different languages the printing presses unified those regions that shared the language and thus brought about much harsher and uniform differences with those that did not share the language. Publishing everything bilingually can help through a state run media, but when you have five large ethnic minorities it becomes unmanageable.

Further, the printing press did very little to harm Chinese civilization as they had a form of it for over 1800 years. Why? Because they had a uniform writing system.

As long as Rome communicates through Latin (or Latin and Greek) it will be fine. The moment it communicates in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, Greek, Arabic, Egyptian, and German (yes, yes, I know those won't exist) the system will collapse on itself. The good news is, with a printing press local deviation of dialects will slow and even reverse with wide spread literacy.
 
Aside for the issue of the paper, anyway the printing press will be valuable to keep alive the Roman world even after in case of successful barbarian invasions. Just think to the works they will be able to survive...
 
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