The Brotherly War 1917-1918

[August von Tauber]

I just finished reading a book on Charles I of Austria Hungary and Croatia-Slovenia. I just found out that after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, Austria Hungary want to make a separate peace with France. When Germany found out the German General Staff wanted to declare war on Austro-Hungary but Wilhelm II forced Charles to sign the Treaty of Spa which basically turned Austro-Hungary into a vassal state of Germany. But what if the General Staff got their way? What if the German Empire declared war on the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy?

I sorry to say but I think the war would be over in three to four months. The Habsburgs will have no allies since all of the Entente blames them for the out break of the war. Italy which wanted so much from land from the Habsburgs would switch sides and allie with Germany. Istria and I think Dalmatia would go to Italy. Galicia and Krakow would go to Germany's Polish vassal state and Bukovina would go to Germany's Ukrainian vassal state.

I don't know want Germany's would take but many Austrian Germans wanted to be part of Germany, even Wilhelm II said to Franz Ferdinand on a hunting trip, "How I love the German part of your empire! I can't wait for the rest to fall apart and it can be joined with our!" The Archduchy and the Bohemian Crown Lands would all be targets for Germany. But the Italians want Trento if not all of Tyrol and the Czechoslovian legions have been fighting for 3 years against Germany and Austria for independence.
It is a question if Germany would let Charles still have the Throne of Hungary or if another Habsburg would sit on the throne or if a German Catholic prince will sit on the throne. But the Habsburg vassal states, Montenegro, Serbia, and Romania would be brought under German Influence. If Serbia is not annexed by Bulgaria first.

I don't know what do you all think, but most importantly how will the Entente and especially Soviet Russian responde to this huge change of power?

 

[Evil Crusader]

The point is, Germany simply doesn't have the manpower for all of this. It only accomplishes an earlier breakdown of the CP camp, to great advantage of Russia and France (and to a lesser extent Italy). The War ends probably somewhere in early 1918, rather than very late into it.

 

[Lalli]

The point is, Germany simply doesn't have the manpower for all of this. It only accomplishes an earlier breakdown of the CP camp, to great advantage of Russia and France (and to a lesser extent Italy). The War ends probably somewhere in early 1918, rather than very late into it.

Agree. Germany just would divide its forces and even worsely just make other CPs wonder if they could completely trust to Germany when it is so stupid that declare war to its ally instead ousting pro-peace government.

 

[Disraeli's Ghost]

IIRC The Austrians had wanted a peace earlier in 1917. 1918 and the resulting scandal was when Clemenceau revealed the previous correspondence.

I sorry to say but I think the war would be over in three to four months

Germany does not have 3 or 4 months in 1918 to fight the Habsburgs. This either has to be done swiftly or not at all. Now I'm of the opinion the Germans probably could have staged this operation if genuinely required, diverting divisions freed up from the East into Austria under some BS excuse. Habsburg form throughout the war suggests they wouldn't grow the backbone needed to stand up to this, and would instead allow it hoping appeasement buys them some form of sovereignty.

I don't have any evidence as to what the occupation would have actually looked like - Charles deposed and Austria partitioned? But that leaves Germany with the problem of having to garrison literally the entire Habsburg Empire, which they lack the troops for.
Presumably some kind of House arrest for Charles is more logical, maintaining him nominally as Habsburg Emperor whilst the Germans take over all other levers of government.

I suspect though that rather than gaining full control of Austrian policy, the Germans find the rest of the Habsburg Empire disintegrates around them fairly quickly.

I don't know what do you all think, but most importantly how will the Entente

Presumably they chuckle, as German divisions that should have been going to the Western Front are instead being sucked into this strategic disaster.

 

[jlckansas]

France and Britain see an opening and decide to support the AH in this to cause more problems for Germany. You could have the AH fleet take Charles to Malta, you don't want the Italians involved in this, to be able to say the Germans stabbed us in the Back when we were down.

 

[Ultima Ratio]

It would look like Operation Margarethe, but perhaps could lead to some very interesting butterflies.

 

[Discernible]

Austrians become the target of a Stabbed in the Back narrative by Germans embittered by defeat in the war.

A one Adolf Hitler is found dead in an alley way in Munich after an unfortunate meeting with Freikorp Engels...

 

[August von Tauber]

IIRC The Austrians had wanted a peace earlier in 1917. 1918 and the resulting scandal was when Clemenceau revealed the previous correspondence.


Germany does not have 3 or 4 months in 1918 to fight the Habsburgs. This either has to be done swiftly or not at all. Now I'm of the opinion the Germans probably could have staged this operation if genuinely required, diverting divisions freed up from the East into Austria under some BS excuse. Habsburg form throughout the war suggests they wouldn't grow the backbone needed to stand up to this, and would instead allow it hoping appeasement buys them some form of sovereignty.

I don't have any evidence as to what the occupation would have actually looked like - Charles deposed and Austria partitioned? But that leaves Germany with the problem of having to garrison literally the entire Habsburg Empire, which they lack the troops for.
Presumably some kind of House arrest for Charles is more logical, maintaining him nominally as Habsburg Emperor whilst the Germans take over all other levers of government.

I suspect though that rather than gaining full control of Austrian policy, the Germans find the rest of the Habsburg Empire disintegrates around them fairly quickly.


Presumably they chuckle, as German divisions that should have been going to the Western Front are instead being sucked into this strategic disaster.

Do you think Germany should have focused on the Entente first then if they won the war turn around and attack the Habsburgs for there "betrayal"?

 

[Evil Crusader]

Do you think Germany should have focused on the Entente first then if they won the war turn around and attack the Habsburgs for there "betrayal"?

They could, sure, but what's in it for them? It's not as easy as just clicking buttons, people would be quite unwilling to fight against their former allies especially after years of intense and devastating War.