Wouldn't the BBC just reuse the Rock costumes from the The Angarath for The Stone of Blood ?
Have them Ogri be the same race as the rocks in The Angarath?
Trying to Please Everyone: Or Converting multiple Pop Culture Utopias into a Timeline.
- Thread starter Marco Incognito
- Start date
Have them Ogri be the same race as the rocks in The Angarath?
Just some more non-Pop culture questions.
When was Eisenhower assassinated in 1963? And compared to OTL's Kennedy's assassination, how different is it? Does a different 'atmosphere' surround the assassination since ITTL the President was a World War 2 Veteran?
What happens to Lee Harvey Oswald, Arthur Bremer, John Hinckley Jr. , and other assassins?
What dictators, other than the Axis powers, exist in TTL's 20th and 21st centuries?
When was Eisenhower assassinated in 1963? And compared to OTL's Kennedy's assassination, how different is it? Does a different 'atmosphere' surround the assassination since ITTL the President was a World War 2 Veteran?
What happens to Lee Harvey Oswald, Arthur Bremer, John Hinckley Jr. , and other assassins?
What dictators, other than the Axis powers, exist in TTL's 20th and 21st centuries?
I can probably canon weld the two at a later date(a little woozy these last few days from a certain vaccine).
I don’t have a specific date or exact scenario in mind though there is less speculation on what could have been since Eisenhower was not going to run a third term.
Oswald is likely still the assassin but Eisenhower was likely given a speech rather than campaigning. I would butterfly away Jack Ruby killing him. Bremer I imagine may have actually killed Wallace ITTL and Hinckley I imagine was arrested due to stalking Jodie Foster(OTL he went to a mental institution but was not helped despite being released. Here he was).
Not sure yet. Will probably get into Africa,South America and other places soon.
Marvel Film and Television: 1944-1999
Marvel in Film and TV: 1944-1999
Patrick Duffy as Namor
The First depiction of a Marvel Property outside the Comic Pages was the Captain America film serials of 1944. Namor would surprisingly gain two TV shows, one in the 1950's starring Richard Egan, and one in the early 1970's starring Patrick Duffy that was even more short lived(replaces OTL "The Man from Atlantis").Following the companies's revival in the 1960's as Superheroes returned to popularity, a series of Cartoon adventures were released. The first of these was The Marvel Super Heroes, which featured segments highlighting different Marvel Heroes, namely Captain America, the Incredible Hulk, the Mighty Thor, and the Sub-Mariner. The Cartoons where largely adaptations of the Comics, with cameos from both the X-Men and the Avengers as well as Spider-Man, who would later get his own animated series in the lineup in 1966. The Show was preceded by a Fantastic Four Series by Hannah Barbara. Earlier deals made crossovers possible despite different airing rights, though the oddest crossover was a storyline in which the Thing was sent back in time to Bedrock in Fred and Barney Meet the Thing in 1979(OTL despite the name, the characters never met and it was more of an anthology, half Flintstone stories, half Fantastic Four stories). This process continued into the 1980's with Spider-Man getting another series, this time with Iceman and Firestar as "Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends". This was followed by an Incredible Hulk animated series after the conclusion of the live action show(with the Hulk in the show made to resemble Ferrigno's depiction).
The Opening to the Original Marvel Superheroes
Live Action Marvel Shows continued to appear, including the Incredible Hulk, Spider-Man, and the Sub-Mariner. The Spider-Man 70's show starred 15 year old actor Tom cruise, who was a bus boy in New York at the time. Born in 1962, he was as old as Spider-Man was and the show was written around him being a teenager in High School trying to balance a Superhero life. Stan Lee got his chance to play J.Jonah Jameson in the series. There was an attempt at a Doctor Strange series in 1978 with a pilot starring Vincent Prince but it was dropped as the Live Action format could not do the character and his trippy 60's world justice. The Pilot is now mostly remembered due to an internet review. Reviewers Linkara, Nash, Jewwario, and Film Brain collaborated on the project. Jewwario(Justin Carmichael) passed away and the review was released. Earlier in the review Jewwario was knocked out by an electrocuted door knob, which was intended to keep him from leaving the room so he could participate in the review. When the review ends, Jewwario moves to leave only to be electrocuted because the reviewers forgot to turn off the electricity used to keep him there. He is then electrocuted and after pausing in shock, the reviewers run to him and the episode ends with a cut to black. By coincidence that was the last review Carmichael did before his death and is essentially considered Jewwario's canonical death.
Stan Lee as J.Jonah Jameson.
Angela Bowie and Ben Carruther as Black Widow and Daredevil
Overseas in Japan, a series of licensed action shows appeared. The First of these was the affectionately nicknamed "Japanese Spider-Man." or "Suppaidaman". The show pioneered the Sentai series. It was followed by Battle Fever J, which adapted several Marvel Superheroes into different versions, including Captain America and the Avengers into Sentai heroes.
1980s
The early era of Marvel Animation was coming to an end. A 1980 Iron Man Series, an Ant-Man and the Wasp series, and a Daredevil series(abandoning an idea of giving him a superpowered guide dog), Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Fantastic Four(which unlike OTL could actually use the Human Torch), Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, and the Incredible Hulk.In 1983, German producer Bernd Eichinger met with Marvel Comics' Stan Lee at Lee's Los Angeles home to explore obtaining an option for a movie based on the Fantastic Four. Warner Bros and Columbia Pictures both expressed interest but the potential cost was a problem. Lee had a great working relationship with Walt Disney(the company and the man) and it was through Disney some of the shows had been released. Marvel could be credited with originating the Shared Superhero Universe and doing so in Animation as well was no easy feat. Now they wished to do so in film. However, one film would be released first that would derail those ambitions.
Graphic Novel adaptation of the Dazzler Film
1984's Dazzler was among the trippiest Superhero films ever conceived with KISS appearing alongside Marvel Superheroes to help save the world from an evil enchantress. The film served as a vehicle for the introduction of Dazzler, played by Bo Derek, whom was modeled after the actress. While the film was more of a cult classic than anything else, it did help increase the funds needed for the later Fantastic Four Movie, even though the studio, and to a lesser extent Marvel itself, deemed the film too surreal and feared association with it. Another Marvel film released the same years was Howard the Duck, an animated film produced by George Lucas was able to nab Ralph Bakshi, who turned the film into something resembling Fritz the Cat in town, allowing Bakshi to take pot shots at Disney(which is also something Howard the Duck's original creator(and by extension Howard himself, loved to do). Lucas has admitted if he couldn't make it animated, he'd have tried to make it live action. An animated show by Marvel called The Young Astronauts, was also released in 1985 as a Saturday morning cartoon, concerning a family on an Insterstellar ship known as the Courageous(think Lost in Space as a cartoon)
Roger Corman was approached to do a Spider-Man movie but the brief option expired. Marvel then offered Spider-Man to Cannon Films with Tobe Hooper to Direct. Hooper was currently working on Invaders From Mars and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 and so was unavailable. The heads of Cannon films, Golan and Globus then went to writer Leslie Stevens, creator of The Outer Limits, and it became clear they had not ever heard or even bothered to research the character, just made assumptions they believed were right. In Stevens' story, a corporate scientist intentionally subjects ID-badge photographer Peter Parker to radioactive bombardment, transforming him into a hairy, suicidal, eight-armed monster. This human tarantula refuses to join the scientist's new master-race of mutants, battling a succession of mutations kept in a basement laboratory. Naturally, Stan Lee pulled the plug on this version and had a new screenplay written by Ted Mewsom and John Brancato, which introduced Doctor Octopus, who is created in the same accident, an explosion that radiates a Spider that bites Peter. Doctor Octopus attempts to recreate the experiment, an effort to gain the Fifth Force, threatening to engulf New York and the world. Joseph Zito, who had directed Cannon's successful Chuck Norris film Invasion USA, replaced Tobe Hooper. The new director hired Barney Cohen to rewrite the script. Cohen, creator of TV's Sabrina the Teenage Witch and Forever Knight, added action scenes, a non-canonical gesture for the villain, gave Doc Ock the catch phrase, "Okey-dokey", and altered his goal from the Fifth Force to a quest for anti-gravity. Producer Golan (using his pen name "Joseph Goldman") then made a minor polish to Cohen's rewrite, which removed the "Okey-dokey". Zito scouted locations and studio facilities in both the U.S. and Europe, and oversaw storyboard breakdowns supervised by Harper Goff. Cannon planned to make the film on the then-substantial budget of between $15 and $20 million.
Zito cast actor/stunt man Scott Leva as Spider-Man's stunt double. Bob Hoskins was to play Doctor Octopus. Stan Lee wanted to reprise his role as J.Jonah Jameson. Lauren Bacall and Katharine Hepburn were approached for the role of Aunt May with Hepburn winning out. Peter Cushing was cast as Justin Hammer, a corrupt Businessman who incurs the wrath of Doctor Octopus. Adolph Caesar was cast as a Police Detective later revealed to be named George Stacy, who was to be killed by Doctor Octopus in the film. Scott Leva continued to promote the film. The Film would fall through at the last moment, due to a failure to find a director for the picture.
Around 1989, Stan Lee and Chris Claremont entered in talks with Carolco Pictures and Lightstorm Entertainment to make a film adaptation of the X-Men comic book series, with James Cameron as producer, Kathryn Bigelow as director and Gary Goldman as writer. Bob Hoskins was originally going to play Wolverine, but both realized that if there were ever crossovers, Bob Hoskins playing Doctor Octopus(which he was still possibly slated to do if the Spider-Man film was made) and Wolverine would have been confusing. Instead they had the ingenious idea of hiring actor Paul D'amato, who had inspired Wolverine's creation, after his appearance in the Canadian comedy Slapshot, to play Wolverine himself. Actress Angela Bassett played Storm. However, Stan Lee himself derailed the film's creation when he and Cameron talked and Lee piques Cameron's interest in making a Spider-Man film instead. While a Spider-Man film was already in the works, Cameron was promised the sequel. X-Men needed another director. With short time, Chris Claremont stepped into the director's chair. Ian Mckellen was added to play Magneto while Patrick Stewart was cast as Professor X. The film was released in 1992, complimenting the X-Men Animated series which began at around the same time with the pilot Pryde of the X-Men having been released around the announcement. Other Animated series followed including the obscure Solarman, and a Ruby Spears produced Thor series.
Paul D'amato as Wolverine.
1990's
In the Early 90's animation was beginning to resume and would later in the decade with Spider-Man, Avengers and X-Men: The Animated Series among others. Spider-Man in particular is noteworthy for killing off Mary Jane Watson, then introducing Gwen Stacy as a replacement love interest(Unlike OTL, this Spider-Man series is never censored to the same extent, meaning they were able to kill of Mary Jane Watson ITTL).In 1991, a cartoon series based on Power Pack was created. It did alright but the spinoff would steal its thunder. Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius, was a show from the same creative minds as Calvin and Hobbes: The Animated Series and had the same art style but followed the solo adventures of Franklin Richards, son of Reed and Sue Richards of the Fantastic Four, and his robot helper H.E.R.B.I.E. Saban wanted to do a Captain America series, but settled for redubbing and editing Japanese Spider-Man and Battle Fever J as they had done with Power Rangers. Another series produced was the now forgotten Stealth Warriors.
Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno returned for Revenge of the Incredible Hulk, despite the Death of the Incredible Hulk, killing off the character, the Film brought him back to life. A She-Hulk live-action motion picture was released in 1992 with Larry Cohen as writer and director. Brigitte Nielsen played the title role. In order to explain She-Hulk existing before a Hulk Movie, the Incredible Hulk TV Show was made canon to the film. Bruce Banner was caught and forced once more to stand trial. Matt Murdock could not reach him in time. Instead, Jennifer Walters offers to defend him(she is not his cousin in the film as this would lead to her not being allowed to defend him if discovered). When assassins gun down Walters and she is hospitalized, Banner offers to give a blood transfusion, transforming Walters into She-Hulk. The Hulk was once played by Lou Ferrigno.
That same year, stealing most of She-Hulk's success, was Quentin Tarantino's Luke Cage, starring Laurence Fishburne, which Tarantino did to gain funds for his next planned film, Pulp Fiction.
Poster of the Spider-Man Movie.
Production began on James Cameron's Spider-Man. Toward the end of shooting True Lies, Variety carried the announcement that Carolco Pictures had received a completed screenplay from James Cameron. This script bore the names of James Cameron, John Brancato, Ted Newsom, Barry Cohen and "Joseph Goldman(OTL this was a confusion of Manaheim Golan's pen name, and Marvel Executive Joseph Calamari). Arnold Shwarzenegger was originally to play as Doctor Octopus but was dropped from the script, later appearing in the second film. Cameron instead introduced Electro and Sandman Cameron's treatment or "Scriptment" as he put it, was 57 pages long. Electro and Sandman were villains. The original script renamed the characters. Electro was an evil billionaire named Carlton Strand and The Sandman was simply named Boyd. This was changed to be more comic accurate(Electro being Max Dillon and Sandman being Flint Marko), and Norman Osborn was added as a villain, though he did not don the Goblin costume, simply fulfilling the corrupt businessman role. Electro was played by Lance Henrickson. Sandman was played by Michael Biehn. All three villains, with the exception of Osborn, being actors Cameron had used in the Terminator. Maggie Smith played Aunt May, Robin Lively played Mary Jane Watson. Stan Lee wanted to return as J.Jonah Jameson but Cameron replaced him with R.Lee Ermey.
R.Lee Ermey as J.Jonah Jameson before Mustache.
The Sandman's origin is depicted in what is considered one of the best scenes in the film. He is accidentally exposed to Philadelphia Experiment-style bilocation and atom-mixing, getting caught in a nuclear blast on a beach. He then struggles to put himself back together and grab a locket with his daughter's picture. He is then forced to serve Osborn who had a hand in the test that created him.
Osborn attempts to recruit Peter Parker(Leonardo DiCaprio) and uses the Sandman and Electro as his enforcers. Peter also begins to commit to a relationship with Mary Jane, who he reveals his identity to. The film uses profanity and has a scene of Spider-Man and Mary Jane having sex on the Brooklyn Bridge. These elements gave the film an R Rating. Spider-Man in the film has organic webbing. The villain tempts Spider-Man into joining his "master race" of mutants; from the original screenplay and rewrite, weird electrical storms causing blackouts, freak magnetic events and bi-location; from the Ethan Wiley draft, a villain addicted to toxic super-powers and multiple experimental spiders, one of which escapes and bites Peter, the bite causing a hallucinatory nightmare invoking Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis; from the Frank LaLoggia script, a blizzard of stolen cash fluttering down onto surprised New Yorkers; and from the Neil Ruttenberg screenplay, a criminal assault on the New York Stock Exchange.
Roger Corman's Fantastic Four film would go through several rewrites, including replacing the original villain known as the Jeweler with the Moleman and several scene improvements. The film would premiere on Labor Day Weekend in 1993. Trailers for the film ran in theaters and on the video release of Director Roger Corman's Carnosaur. The cast members hired a publicist, at their own expense, to help promote the film at a clips-screening at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles and at the San Diego Comic-Con International. By this time, the world premiere was announced to take place at the Mall of America in Minneapolis, Minnesota with proceeds from the event earmarked for the charities Ronald McDonald House and Children's Miracle Network.
In 1989, Erik Fleming, then a film student from the USC School of Cinematic Arts, and Robert Letterman approached Marvel Studios and Constantin Film's producer Bernd Eichinger to ask permission to make a short film featuring the Silver Surfer, as a proof of concept for the use of CGI in creating a realistic silver coloured human figure. Supervised by Steven Robiner, this 5-minute short film, completed in 1991, premiered at First Look USC Film Festival on September 21, 1993, led to significant interest from major studios in a feature-length Silver Surfer project. However, in 1992, Quentin Tarantino, fresh from his critical success with Reservoir Dogs, had come to Constantin Productions with a Silver Surfer script and this film was accepted with Fleming and Letterman providing special effects. However, it was eventually decided to fold this film into the sequel Fantastic Four Film. Corman was replaced by Tarantino for the 1994 sequel film Fantastic Four: Galactus. The Film largely helped to introduce the Silver Surfer, who arrived on Earth to prepare it for the arrival of Galactus. The Silver Surfer, after meeting the Thing's blind girlfriend Alicia Masters, turns on his master. The Fantastic Four meanwhile sneaked onto Galactus's ship to obtain the weapon known as the Ultimate Nullifier, they fail but Reed Richards is able to create a duplicate(that would not have worked) and trick Galactus into mistaking it for the real thing. R.Lee Ermey appears as J.Jonah Jameson towards the film's conclusion, holding a newspaper dubbing Galactus a hoax.
Sequels for both X-Men and Spider-Man were in the works. The X-Men sequel X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills, based on the storyline of the same name, which Chris Claremont had written and now directed was released in 1995. A TV show, Generation X, was released, intending to explore the lives of other Mutants in the X-Men word, with the cast making occasional. appearances. A Spider-Man sequel: The Amazing Spider-Man was released in 1996. The film introduced Doctor Octopus, with Shwarzenegger in the role. Concepts of the original draft for the Spider-Man film were used, including Doctor Octopus building a weapon. Norman Osborn, the Sandman and Electro returned. Since New Line Cinema was working on a Venom Movie, it was decided Doctor Octopus would be working on creating the Symbiote as a way to benefit humanity. Eddie Brock was introduced in the film as Peter Parker's childhood friend. Their parents worked on the Symbiote together before Osborn stole it away from them and Doc Ock now seeks to finish what they started. Peter Parker gained the Black Suit. Its power is shockingly demonstrated when after an earlier battle in which Spider-Man suffers a humiliating defeat by Doc Ock, Electro and Sandman, he has a rematch with the Black Suit and easily defeats them, using their powers against them, only for it to later be revealed Peter was asleep the entire fight and the suit was controlling him. Peter eventually has to free himself from the suit, which infects Eddie and turns him into Venom. Eddie Brock was played by Eminem(who even recorded a song for the soundtrack), however when he was Venom, to demonstrate his physicality, and his deeper voice, he was played by Dolph Lundgren.
In 1997, David S. Goyer finished the script for Venom for New Line Cinema. Dolph Lundgren reprised his role without Eminem with the explanation that the Symbiote had transformed Eddie completely.. The main villain of the film was Carnage, who's origin was told in the film. Venom was released in 1998
Movie Poster for Venom.
Universal had their own contender. Hoping to tie in the the opening of Universal Studio's Island of Adventure, a Hulk film was planned with the idea that the Hulk would go toe to toe with Superman(specifically Superman Lives) at the box office in the summer of 1998. She-Hulk also returned but Bill Bixby had to retire due to poor health. Billy Crudup would play Bruce Banner who discovered that two other people had been exposed to the same gamma bomb that had created the Hulk, one became the Abomination, which had the Hulk's strength but retained a normal intelligence and the Leader, who was as smart as the Hulk was strong. It was now up to the Hulk to defeat the two evil beings. Jonathan Heinsleigh directed the film. Despite Marvel's best efforts, the Hulk was defeated by Superman at the box office.
Billy Crudup with mockup of the Hulk
Instead the end of the decade was dominated by the conclusion to two mighty trilogies. X-Men's 1998 conclusion to the trilogy adapted the story of X-Men: Days of Future Past, and followed the story faithfully, though adding the detail of Magneto reforming and his hearing being bombed triggering the events leading towards the apocalypse, which a time travelling Kitty Pryde attempts to stop, seemingly succeeding.
Finally 1999 saw the release of The Spectacular Spider-Man. The Film brought back Doctor Octopus, Sandman, Electro, Venom and Carnage, with Norman Osborn finally donning the Green Goblin mantle, completing the Sinister Six, and attempting to get revenge on Spider-Man, with Venom switching sides part way through the movie. In the final battle, most of the villains were killed. Despite the end of both trilogies, this was not the end of Marvel's presence in Superhero Films. For as DC was beginning to head towards their big onscreen team up, Marvel wasn't too far behind.
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Will there be a JK Simmons and Toby Maguire somewhere in the future of this Marvel Cinematic Universe?
I do plan on having them be in here in a different Spider-Man series. Spider-Man 1 can still happen due to green goblin not getting a lot of focus in Cameron’s trilogy. Spider-Man 2 is different due to the plot being used in Cameron’s Spider-Man 2(a Doc Ock script where he threatens the city with a device he’s building actually goes back to the late 1980’s) Spider-Man 3 will also be different, likely without Venom, leaving it to be Sandman and New Goblin(Hobgoblin ITTL). Finally Tobey Spidey(has a bigger chance of entering the MCU, likely getting the Spider-Man role through DiCaprio since he’s jumping ship to DC to play Aquaman.
It's not a Joke. It's an allusion to the real world death of a reviewer.
Paul D'amato seems to be a very obscure actor in OTL, from what I have researched on Google.
Paul D'amato as Wolverine.
Yeah but he is the inspiration for John Byrne's Wolverine's inspiration based on his short appearance in Slapshot so I thought I'd throw him a bone.
I like D amato better as Wolverine then Bob Hoskin as Wolverine.
I just can not see Hosking make the character work
In case you're wondering. Here's D'amato's character in Slapshot, which inspired Wolverine.
Perfect. All you need now is this.This gave me major late 90s-early 00s energy and vibes
Will Family Guy, South Park, Clone High, Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty, and other adult animated shows be covered in the future?
Yes they will. Family Guy will probably be cancelled earlier after Seth McFarlane leaves, though having an earlier crossover with the Simpsons. Clone High would go on longer, avoiding the Ghandi controversy by revealing earlier in an episode that Ghandi was actually a Gary Coleman clone(a development that would have been revealed had the show continued). This likely leads into this...
Bojack Horseman so far could be kept same as OTL. Finally Ricky and Morty will likely have a better overall third season and to an extent better fourth season.