The OP was talking specifically about the Soviet Union. Having the USSR as an Axis power would change the war significantly, but it's not possible. German and Soviet interests clashed. A war was going to have to be fought between the two.
What if there was a Fourth Axis Power?
- Thread starter estonian man
- Start date
Sweden would have to start rearming sooner and /or on a larger scale to make an effective contribution to the Axis war effort. However, to be fair, that's also necessary for some of the countries that I have suggested and some of those suggested by others.
Correct.
Correct & correct.
Once again, correct & correct.
Which is why I and others have suggested alternative countries, which have varying degrees of plausibility of joining the Axis, and the differences they might make.
As Argentina in the Axis has been mentioned, this is a link to last year's thread on the subject.
Sooner or later they get stamped on. I think it would have been later, but there are compelling arguments in the thread for it being sooner.
What if: Argentina Invaded the Falklands on December 7, 1941.
In September 1941, an Argentine naval captain proposed a plan to invade the Falkland Islands. In OTL this plan was shot down. But suppose this plan is put into action and by coincidence the invasion begins on December 7, 1941. Obviously the allies win. I’m more curious about what the campaign...
www.alternatehistory.com
There were already a bunch of countries in the Axis. For there to be a 4th power,it would have to be a reasonably large country. The only ones I can think of are Spain, Poland, Brazil and Argentina. Polish interests clash with Germany and Brazil and Argentina are too far away to count on help from the Axis. It has to be Spain, but they're recovering from a Civil War.
All correct. The title of the thread is misleading. It should have been, "What if there was a fourth Major Axis power?" Which I think is what @estonian man meant.
My current favourite is to wank Romania.
would ww2 even start if france was in it ?
i doubt england would help poland alone
Basils
Banned
F
Fromnwhat over read on this site is that Hitler actually downplayed his antisemitism and tuned up his anti Slavic rhetoric. I think he would have made peace with the soviets if he had access to resources. Especially if he could force Vichy France to bend more to German demands
It's "What if Operation Catapult provoked Vichy France into declaring war on Great Britain?"
According to one of the British official histories it was "touch and go" for about a week afterwards. That's according to "Grand Strategy Volume 2" or "The Mediterranean & Middle East, Volume 1".
thaddeus
Donor
my speculation has been what if the RN sunk the fleeing BB Strasbourg in the Med, the loss of the ship and the loss of life could have raised the chances for war.
when the British attack Dakar and the Japanese invade Indochina nearly simultaneously in Sept. 1940, that could be a POD for Germany to pivot away from Japan and move closer to the Vichy regime.
(of course the British and Japanese were not working in concert, but they both could be viewed as against the German aim of keeping the French empire intact and under control of the Vichy regime)
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thaddeus
Donor
IDK what scenario would change this dynamic, certainly it would not occur out of thin air in 1940 -41? there needs to be some change(s) during the interwar period.
historically the von Seeckt plan was for cooperation with the USSR and China to avoid the effects of any blockades, one can argue that is a better plan than their strange alliance with Japan.
IDK sort of an Allied blunder bombing Baku how the USSR could be leveraged into the Axis or at least remain a collaborator?
I don't think it was that strange. Japan was a revisionist power. So was Germany. Their interests were broadly aligned.
It frees up a large number of German & Italian troops later in the war who had to occupy Yugoslavia. By 1944 Tito was tying down a couple hundred thousand Axis troops.
No. Hitler had plans for the Poles. He wanted their land, and to reduce the people to a slave population. Hitler despised the Polish People. He thought of Poles as only one step above the Jews.
Americans, British, and Brazilians. Just for the asking they get Chile into the coalition. Ether by a reversal of policy, or a coup Argentina would be the first country to leave the Axis. The Pact of Steel would rust very quickly. Argentina is just too vulnerable to economic, and military pressure.
Economic pressure. Doubtful. Argentina could feed itself and was self-sufficient in oil. It could reply to economic sanctions by nationalising the Argentine companies owned by the British.
Militarily pressure. Sooner or later the Americans & British react and when they do Argentina will be stamped on. It's only a matter of time. However, OTL Argentina was strong enough to fight a war against Brazil & Chile.
Please follow the link in Post 44 for a fuller explanation of the pros and cons.
I think instead of a 4th member what about another power bloc allying with them? Argentina wasn’t the only possible fascist or fascist leaning country in Latin America. So how about a Latin Alliance that joins with the axis containing Brazil, Argentina, Peru, and Venezuela?
They all had potential as fascist nations, the fascist movements just need to roll 6s like Hitler did early and bam, you cut off Allies from extra oil, rubber, food etc… you also get safe harbor for axis navies. Even if this pushes US into earlier rearmament they aren’t likely to get enough war support in Congress unless there is a Pearl Harbor like otl. They would also bypass US embargo and trade with Japan thus helping Japan and lessen the probability of Japan attacking the US and more likely to Go North.
They all had potential as fascist nations, the fascist movements just need to roll 6s like Hitler did early and bam, you cut off Allies from extra oil, rubber, food etc… you also get safe harbor for axis navies. Even if this pushes US into earlier rearmament they aren’t likely to get enough war support in Congress unless there is a Pearl Harbor like otl. They would also bypass US embargo and trade with Japan thus helping Japan and lessen the probability of Japan attacking the US and more likely to Go North.