WI: The Vatican openly endorses Operation Barbarossa?

Falk

Banned
OTL the Vatican seemed to be mute when it came to criticizing the Nazi regime while at the same time quite loudly was against the Soviet Union. So what if the Vatican openly endorsed the invasion of the Soviet Union? What would be the wartime reactions from the allied powers? What kind of repercussions will there be post war?
 
Augenis

Augenis

"The Pope? How many divisions has he got?" - Joseph Stalin

Probably a bigger opposition to the Catholic Church in postwar Italy, among other places.
 
Augenis

Augenis

Zagan said:
The Vatican City will be partitioned into four occupation zones by the victorious powers!
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One half of the St. Peter Basilica will go to the Soviets and be turned into a warehouse, while the other half will go to the Americans and be turned into a Baptist church.
 

Fenestella

Banned
Followed by endorsement from major Orthodox Patriarchates, followed by endorsement from rightful claimants to Russian throne, followed by restoration of Orthodox monarchy. In return, Germans got Ukrainian chernozem belt.
 

marcinL

Falk said:
OTL the Vatican seemed to be mute when it came to criticizing the Nazi regime while at the same time quite loudly was against the Soviet Union. So what if the Vatican openly endorsed the invasion of the Soviet Union? What would be the wartime reactions from the allied powers? What kind of repercussions will there be post war?
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Perhaps this was because hundred million Catholics had to live under German jackboot, while the same couldn't be said about the Soviet rubber boot?
 

pattersonautobody

It would make little difference, but perhaps a deal is worked out sparing Polish Catholics, which can have some knock-ons. (Nazis persecuted serious Polish Catholics, many priests in concentration camps.) The Pope would say he was misinterpreted, all the Catholic faithful would agree, and they would move along. An earlier Vatican II. Perhaps the Sedecevenicism (sp?) is bigger. A bigger distrust between Orthodoxy and Catholicism would exist. Stalin stopped putting the screws as badly to the Orthodox Church after the invasion. Perhaps he would figure out that Orthodoxy is pretty pro-state and he would loosen up policies. This means lest persecution of the Orthodox Church behind the iron curtain. This improves Orthodox mission work today and perhaps a slightly earlier fall of the Soviet Union (as Orthodoxy opposes the intellectual underpinnings of the Communist state.)
 

Galba Otho Vitelius

The Pope gets involved openly backing one side or another in great power wars pretty much, never. They didn't even do this during the Thirty Years War! And there are good reasons for this. The Pope may have gotten involved in the various anti French Revolution coalitions, after all the French government was killing priests, but then they tried to work with Napoleon.

So this is one of those things that are not technically ASB, but you need a different curia and probably even a different Pope than Pius XII. There is a difference between the Axis friendly neutrality of Pius XII and openly getting involved on one side, which someone who had been high up in Vatican circles for most of his life would never do. There is also the problem that his predecessor had issued an anti-Nazi encyclical, again Pope really try to avoid doing a complete flip flop on past Vatican positions, again for very good reasons.

What I'm arguing is that the POD for this one may have to go back centuries before 1941, and it would have already resulted in a very different Catholicism.
 

overoceans

Mass attacks on Catholics throughout the Allied nations. Police would probably be willing to look the other way if priests and nuns were murdered on the streets of London, Toronto and Sydney. Catholic politicians and government officials would renounce their baptisms en masse. And if Germany still declares war on the USA a few months after Barbarossa, all hell breaks loose in America as well. St. Patrick's Day parades are broken up with shotgun fire.

That said, none of this is likely to come to pass, since the OP is almost certainly ASB.
 

Lalli

overoceans said:
Mass attacks on Catholics throughout the Allied nations. Police would probably be willing to look the other way if priests and nuns were murdered on the streets of London, Toronto and Sydney. Catholic politicians and government officials would renounce their baptisms en masse. And if Germany still declares war on the USA a few months after Barbarossa, all hell breaks loose in America as well. St. Patrick's Day parades are broken up with shotgun fire.

That said, none of this is likely to come to pass, since the OP is almost certainly ASB.
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And situation for Catholics in Eastern Bloc on future would be even worse. State-sponsered activities against all openly Catholics and catholic churches and monasteries/nunasteries.
 
Livius wannabe

Livius wannabe

Falk said:
But very anti-Soviet. Wouldn't that be enough of a push.
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Having worked as diplomat, therefore with knowledge of facts on the ground, it's hard to believe he would think it worthwhile.

Short of a major change of attitude on Germany's part in regard to religion, the only non-ASB way is a stroke.
 

ATP45

Banned
Falk said:
OTL the Vatican seemed to be mute when it came to criticizing the Nazi regime while at the same time quite loudly was against the Soviet Union. So what if the Vatican openly endorsed the invasion of the Soviet Union? What would be the wartime reactions from the allied powers? What kind of repercussions will there be post war?
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Pope saved 800.000 jews without army.Roosevelt knew about Holocaust - and did nothing,no even bomb railroads to Auschwitz.Pope knew about german plans to attack vatican - and planned to abdicate.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
ATP45 said:
Pope saved 800.000 jews without army.Roosevelt knew about Holocaust - and did nothing,no even bomb railroads to Auschwitz.Pope knew about german plans to attack vatican - and planned to abdicate.
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The 800,000 lives saved claim appears to be extremely dubious, at best.
 
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