But how did you go from talking about how a supreme court decision that affects harsh sentences for minorities could go another way to talking about RFK's religiosity and how he might not be gay-friendly or be pro-choice which the author has already discussed?
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Mr. President, you've said in your previous post about The 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, Soviet Union that the US and its Allies would do a diplomatic boycott due to their actions in Afghanistan and Vietnam. With their diplomats of the US and its Allies are not in the Olympics, does that mean all of their athletes are in attendance and compete with the Soviets in Moscow?
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Thanks for taking an interest!
I'm currently working on the final draft at the moment. Still have some edits to make, scenes to add or rework, etc.But it's going to be a horror/historical fiction novel set in Denver, Colorado in the year 1883. It's called Bought with Blood.
When "the Queen City of the Plains" is struck by a series of grizzly murders, a group of strangers: a Union army vet turned deputy US marshal; a doctor of medicine from New York; a nun of the Sisters of Loretto; and an aspiring opera singer, must join forces to confront the darkness threatening the city. In so doing, they will also come face to face with an ugly side of the "Wild West" - one full of cruelty and exploitation.
The goal is to finish the edits soon and then start looking for an agent who can possibly help me work out something with a publisher. I've never done this sort of thing before, so I'm hoping to learn more before we get to that point.
I'm guessing this refers to "The Sandman Saga" by Denny O'Neill, which ran from Superman #233 to 242. Unfortunately if this mirrors what happened in OTL, then it may still be undermined and forgotten because the Superman titles were divided among several editors after Mort Weisinger retired in 1971. Julius Schwartz edited Superman and World's Finest, but Murray Boltinoff edited Action Comics, which ignored The Sandman Saga completely. Future writers like Elliot S! Maggin and Cary Bates would similarly ignore the story as well.
I'm guessing Marv Wolfman and the late George Perez are the creative force behind this considering that they created Raven, Starfire, and Cyborg. Wonder Girl (Donna Troy) and Kid Flash (Wally West) are also members if the cover is any indication.
It's worthing nothing that the success of (New) Teen Titans will mean there will most likely be a shake up Justice League of America. NTT and Legion of Super-Heroes were DC's highest selling titles of the early 1980s while JLA stagnated, which led to the much maligned "Justice League Detroit" era, which I would like to see avoided if possible.
I wonder if Frank Miller with swoop in with The Dark Knight Returns, which revitalized Batman.
With your writing on BSIC, I can safely say it will be well-written. Horror's never been my cup of tea so I can't say I'll be the first to buy it. Best of luck.Thanks for taking an interest!
But it's going to be a horror/historical fiction novel set in Denver, Colorado in the year 1883. It's called Bought with Blood.
When "the Queen City of the Plains" is struck by a series of grizzly murders, a group of strangers: a Union army vet turned deputy US marshal; a doctor of medicine from New York; a nun of the Sisters of Loretto; and an aspiring opera singer, must join forces to confront the darkness threatening the city. In so doing, they will also come face to face with an ugly side of the "Wild West" - one full of cruelty and exploitation.
The goal is to finish the edits soon and then start looking for an agent who can possibly help me work out something with a publisher. I've never done this sort of thing before, so I'm hoping to learn more before we get to that point.
well, in terms of Israel you can't really say he'd be 'behind' relative to others on that issue for the 80s as support for Israel was completely mainstream at that time and even some far leftists were in support. I forget if there's been something like Camp David yet ttl; that could definitely impact how things with the peace process go forwards
Interesting thoughts here. I'll be sure to keep them in mind as we move forward with comics. 🤔
Thank you very much. 😁
TTL's "Walkers Point Accords", negotiated by President George Bush and NSA Henry Kissinger in 1975 served a similar purpose to OTL's Camp David Accords. Egypt under Sadat agreed to recognize Israel's right to exist, providing a framework for peace under a two state solution moving forward. Of course, a lot will depend on the 1981 election in Israel. If Likud under Begin keep their majority, then peace is probably less likely to continue progressing in the 80s.
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Good question! I meant to mention this in a previous update. President Udall signed TTL's version of the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978.
I had to mention this suggestion of mine again. With all of the athletes from the United States and its Allies are in attendance, does that mean this is happened or shall we say "canon"? Can we say Mr. President that US Basketball Team got the Olympic Gold Medal, while Philippine Basketball Team got the Olympic Silver Medal, and Soviet Basketball Team got the Olympic Bronze Medal?
Still waiting for my suggestion to be added in your next chapter updates.
Also looking forward for Prince Charles and Amanda Knatchbull's Courtship and Marriage ITTL, including JFK, Jr. and Diana Spencer as well ITTL. Where exactly is Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley, Jr. as of 1980 ITTL? I want them to be either hospitalized to cure their mental health or to be put them in jail for good.
Seriously? I thought that this won't happen ITTL to make both PanAm and TWA as the leading airline companies in the country. Is this act really necessary for the airline industry in the US? Because I want keep them as long as it is up to Present ITTL. Are you still going to keep PanAm to the Present ITTL or going to close just as IOTL?
Apologies for not explicitly stating this sooner. Upon the suggestions of multiple readers, I went back and officially edited the chapter that referenced President Udall's response to the 1980 Moscow Olympics. The US issued a diplomatic rather than complete boycott. Thus, western athletes were still able to compete in the 1980 Olympics. This is "canon", as they say.
Many of these films will be covered in the forthcoming pop culture update (after Empire Strikes Back). Please stay tuned.
John Hinckley, Jr. and Mark David Chapman will both be mentioned yet in updates to come as well. I have plans for both of them, some of which do involve getting treatment for their mental health issues.
After doing some research into airline deregulation, this was a pretty across the board, consensus decision. IOTL, the bill passed 83-9 in the Senate and 363 - 8 in the House. I feel like that act, or something like it, is virtually inevitable. As beloved as PanAm was as an iconic brand, I feel that it has a number of institutional hurdles it will need to overcome. It has to reform in order to remain profitable. I can't really see the US government sticking with the concept of a "flag carrier" brand just for its own sake. TWA could fare better if they expand domestic flight options, or find another way to make their international routes profitable.
Pop Culture Update - The Empire Strikes Back!
Pop Culture Update: The Making of The Empire Strikes Back
“Do. Or do not. There is no try.” - Yoda
The Empire Strikes Back (also known later as “Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back”) was an epic space opera film directed by Irvin Kershner from a screenplay by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan, based on a story by George Lucas.
The sequel to Star Wars (1977), it is the second film released in the Star Wars film series and the fifth chronological chapter in “the Skywalker Saga”. Set three years after the events of the first film, the sequel recounts the ongoing battle between the malevolent Galactic Empire, led by the Emperor (Ian McDiarmid), and the Rebel Alliance, led by Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher). Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) trains to master the Force so he can confront the powerful Sith lord, Darth Vader (Christopher Lee). The ensemble cast also includes Harrison Ford as Han Solo, Yaphet Kotto as Lando Calrissian, Anthony Daniels as C-3PO, Kenny Baker as R2-D2, Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca, and Frank Oz as the iconic Jedi Master Yoda.
Following the success of Star Wars, Lucas hired Brackett to write the sequel. After she passed away from cancer in 1978, Lucas took the time to carefully outline the whole Star Wars saga and wrote the next draft himself, before hiring eventual Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) writer Kasdan to enhance his work. Lucas made several key decisions during his revised script for Empire.
In earlier iterations of his plans for Star Wars, Luke had a twin sister, named “Nellith”. Nellith was supposed to be going on her own parallel hero’s journey separate from Luke’s, which would eventually be covered in subsequent films before the siblings teamed up (somewhere around film six) to finally confront the Emperor and defeat the Empire once and for all. Though interesting, this outline was also quite ambitious. After the difficulties he faced in completing the first film, Lucas believed that he might need to rein in the scope of the project somewhat. Still, he couldn’t let go of the idea… The exchange between Obi Wan Kenobi’s Force ghost (Toshiro Mifune) and Yoda from Leigh Brackett’s script remained in the final film:
Obi-Wan
That boy is our only hope.
Yoda
No. There is another.
That boy is our only hope.
Yoda
No. There is another.
Thus, a conundrum presented itself: if Lucas ixnayed the Nellith character, then who could be the “other” that Yoda was talking about? In the end, Lucas decided to keep the idea of Luke having a secret twin sister. Because Leia was the only significant female character already present in the first film (and really, the second), and because Lucas never really felt comfortable with Brackett’s idea of a love triangle between Luke, Leia, and Han anyway, Lucas decided to make Leia Luke’s secret twin. This did not have a significant impact on Empire directly, though it did lead to the removal of what would have subsequently been an awkward scene where Leia kisses Luke. In the final version of Empire, she hugs him, relieved, when she sees that he’s alright instead. Luke and Leia being twins would be revealed in the final film of the original trilogy - Return of the Jedi - in 1983.
To avoid the stress he faced directing Star Wars, Lucas handed the responsibility to Kershner and focused on expanding his special effects company Industrial Light & Magic instead. Filmed from March to September 1979 in Finse, Norway, and at Elstree Studios in England, The Empire Strikes Back faced production difficulties, including actor injuries, illnesses, fires, and problems securing additional financing as costs rose. Initially budgeted at $8 million, costs had risen to $30.5 million by the film's conclusion.
Above: George Lucas (left); Christopher Lee as Darth Vader (center); and Irvin Kershner (right) on the set of The Empire Strikes Back.
Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, the Imperial fleet, led by Darth Vader, dispatches probe droids across the galaxy to find Princess Leia's Rebel Alliance. One probe locates the rebel base on the ice planet Hoth. A wampa captures Luke Skywalker before he can investigate the probe, but he escapes by using the Force to retrieve his lightsaber and wound the beast. Before succumbing to hypothermia, the Force spirit of Luke's deceased mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi (played once more by Toshiro Mifune), instructs him to go to the swamp planet Dagobah to train as a Jedi Knight under the Jedi Master Yoda. Han Solo discovers Luke and insulates him against the weather inside his deceased tauntaun mount until they are rescued the next morning.
Alerted to the Rebels' location, the Empire launches a large-scale attack using AT-AT walkers to capture the base, forcing the Rebels to evacuate. Han and Leia escape with C-3PO and Chewbacca aboard the Millennium Falcon, but the ship's hyperdrive malfunctions. They hide in an asteroid field, where Han and Leia grow closer amid the tension. In a moment of passion, they kiss. Vader summons several bounty hunters, including Boba Fett (Jeremy Bulloch, voiced by Jason Wingreen), to find the Falcon. Evading the Imperial fleet, Han's group travels to the floating Cloud City on the planet Bespin, which is governed by his old friend Lando Calrissian (Yaphet Kotto). Fett tracks them there and Vader forces Lando to surrender the group to the Empire, knowing Luke will come to their aid.
Meanwhile, Luke travels with R2-D2 in his X-wing fighter to Dagobah, where he crash-lands. He meets Yoda (Frank Oz), a diminutive creature who reluctantly accepts him as his Jedi apprentice after conferring with Obi-Wan's spirit. Yoda trains Luke to master the light side of the Force and resist negative emotions that will seduce him to the dark side, as they did Vader. Luke struggles to control his anger and impulsiveness and fails to comprehend the nature and power of the Force until he witnesses Yoda use it to levitate the X-wing from the swamp. Luke has a premonition of Han and Leia in pain and, despite Obi-Wan's and Yoda's protestations, abandons his training to rescue them. Although Obi-Wan believes Luke is their only hope, Yoda asserts that "there is another."
Leia confesses her love for Han before Vader freezes him in carbonite to test whether the process will safely imprison Luke. Han survives and is given to Fett, who intends to collect his bounty from Jabba the Hutt. Lando frees Leia and Chewbacca, but they are too late to stop Fett's escape. The group fights its way back to the Falcon and flees the city. Luke arrives and engages Vader in a lightsaber duel over the city's central air shaft. Vader overwhelms Luke, severing his right hand and separating him from his lightsaber. He urges Luke to embrace the dark side and help him destroy his master, the Emperor, so they may rule the galaxy together. Luke refuses, citing Obi-Wan's claim that Vader killed his father…
This moment prompts Lee’s Vader to deliver perhaps the most famous twist in the history of cinema:
Vader
Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke
(Ruefully)
He told me enough.
(A beat)
He told me you killed him.
Vader
No. I am your father.
Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke
(Ruefully)
He told me enough.
(A beat)
He told me you killed him.
Vader
No. I am your father.
This twist was devised by Lucas after years of originally intending for Vader and Luke’s father, Anakin Skywalker, to have been two different people. In Brackett’s original draft for Empire, Luke even meets the ghost of his father, who explains how Vader betrayed the Jedi and killed Anakin. As with Nellith and Leia, Lucas decided that combining Anakin and Vader into one character would not only simplify the story, but would raise the stakes in Luke and Vader’s relationship tremendously. Though the twist was somewhat controversial at the time, it has become one of the most iconic moments in Star Wars and cinematic history.
Desperate, Luke drops into the air shaft and is ejected beneath the floating city, latching onto an antenna. He reaches out through the Force to Leia, and the Falcon returns to rescue him. TIE fighters pursue the group, which is almost captured by Vader's Star Destroyer until R2-D2 reactivates the Falcon's hyperdrive, allowing them to escape.
Aboard the Rebel fleet, a robotic prosthesis replaces Luke's hand. He, Leia, C-3PO, and R2-D2 observe as Lando and Chewbacca depart on the Falcon to find Han as the music swells and the credits roll.
Just as Star Wars had in 1977, The Empire Strikes Back was released on May 4th, helping to build recognition of the day in the fandom as “Star Wars Day”. Industry professionals expected comedies and positive entertainment to dominate theaters in 1980 because of low morale in the United States caused by an economic recession. This generally increased theatrical visits as audiences sought escapism and ignored romantic films and depictions of blue-collar life. A surge of interest in science fiction following Star Wars led to many low-budget entries in the genre attempting to profit by association and big-budget entries such as Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Doctor Who Meets the Scratchman, and The Black Hole, all of which released within the year before The Empire Strikes Back.
Sequels were not expected to perform as well as their originals, and there were low expectations for merchandising. Even so, tie-in deals were arranged with Coca-Cola, Nestlé, General Mills, and Topps collectibles. Fox was confident in the film and spent little money on advertising, taking out small advertisements in newspapers instead of full-page spreads. The studio's market research showed 60% of those interested in the film were male. Lucasfilm set up a telephone number allowing callers to hear a message from cast members. Fox demanded a minimum 28-week appearance in theaters, where 12 weeks was the norm for major films. Estimates suggested Empire needed to earn $57.2 million to be profitable, after marketing, distribution, and loan interest costs. Any doubts that industry suits might have had, however, were swiftly crushed.
Above: Fans line up at the Alabama theater in Houston, Texas, waiting for the chance to see The Empire Strikes Back on its opening day - May 4th, 1980.
In its initial theatrical run alone, Empire earned approximately $210 Million. Although it earned less than the $221.3 million of Star Wars, Empire was still considered a tremendous financial success, and industry experts estimated the film returned $120 million to the filmmakers, recouping Lucas's investment and clearing his debt; he also paid out $5 million in employee bonuses. The film was easily the highest-grossing of 1980, finishing well ahead of its nearest competitors: comedies like 9 to 5; Stir Crazy; and Airplane!. Empire did not receive the same repeat business as Star Wars, which Lucas blamed on its inconclusive ending
Upon its initial release, The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews compared to the nearly universally positive reception of Star Wars. Fan reactions were decidedly mixed, concerned by the change in tone and narrative reveals, particularly Leia's love for Han over Luke (the masses not yet realizing their familial connection) and Luke’s relationship with Vader. Some critics believed that The Empire Strikes Back was a good film but not as enjoyable as Star Wars. They believed that the darker material and tonal shift toward more mature storylines “ruined” the “silly, lighthearted fun” of the original.
Of course, in the years and decades that followed, the film has undergone a significant critical reevaluation. Whereas the darker tone was originally viewed as the film’s weak point, it has since been lauded as a necessary step in the evolution of the franchise. Indeed, Kershner’s direction, which helped turn the characters from “pure archetypes” into “actual human beings” is said to have saved the film series from repetition and tedium.
Empire allowed Lucas to delve deeper into the themes he wanted to explore with the franchise as a whole. Much material was drawn not just from Flash Gordon and the adventure serials of the 1930s and 40s (which Lucas adored and grew up with), but from ancient mythology. Lucas frequently referred to Joseph Campbell’s seminal work of comparative myth, The Hero of a Thousand Faces when writing the script. He even kept a copy of the book with him at all times on set. Hamill, Fisher, and Ford would each recall times when Lucas would flip the book open to quote one underlined passage or another when answering their questions on their character at any given moment in the story.
Luke Skywalker was very much inspired by mythical heroes - Prometheus, Jason, and Sir Galahad. He is guided by a wise old mentor - Obi Wan, and later, Yoda. In accepting Yoda, a physically diminutive alien as his mentor, Luke must discard his preconceived notions of a Jedi being a great warrior. As Yoda puts it, “size matters not”. The Force is more powerful and more meaningful than being able to swing a lightsaber around. In confronting Vader, Luke must also undergo an internal journey, be tested by his own dark impulses, and eventually overcome them. This journey represents the human ability to control irrational impulsiveness to serve higher ideals like love, reason, and justice.
Lucas wanted Yoda to be a traditional fairy-tale or mythological character, akin to a frog or an unassuming old man, to instill a message about respecting everyone and not judging on appearance alone, because he believed that would lead the hero to succeed. The New York Observer's Brandon Katz described Yoda as deepening the Force through philosophy. Yoda says they are all luminous beings beyond just flesh and matter, and presents the Jedi as Zen warriors who work in harmony with the Force. Kasdan, for his part, described the Jedi as enlightened warrior priests, similar to Samurai.
In developing the Force, Lucas said he wanted it to represent the core essence of multiple religions unified by their common traits. Primarily, he designed it with the intent that there is good, evil, and “some kind of a god”. Lucas's personal faith includes a belief in God and basic morality, such as treating others fairly and not taking another's life. Some religious scholars described Empire's religious message as closer to Eastern religions such as Zoroastrianism or Buddhism than Judeo-Christian, presenting good and evil as abstract concepts. Similarly, God or the Force is an impersonal entity, taking no direct action. Others argue, however, that Luke’s journey is indeed a Christian allegory - focusing on destiny and free will. In this reading, Luke serves as a Christ-like, messianic figure, while Vader plays the role of a fallen angel, attempting to lure Luke toward evil. Kershner insisted that any religious symbolism in the film was not intentional. A student of opera and classical literature, he’d intended for the film to play out almost in the manner of an ancient Greek tragedy.
The film also explores themes of friendship, heroism, and fighting for high ideals. Though Luke loses his innocence in confronting the darkness of Darth Vader, this is a necessary step for him to grow, mature, and eventually (in the third film) defeat that evil. The scene in which Luke enters the dark side cave on Dagobah represents where his anger will lead him and forces him to move beyond his belief that he is completely on the light side of the Force. Kershner said the cave tests Luke against his greatest fear, but because the fear is in his mind, and he brought his weapon with him, it creates a scenario where he is forced to use it. After defeating the avatar of Vader, the mask splits open to reveal Luke's face, suggesting he will succumb to the temptations of the dark side unless he learns patience and to abandon his anger.
The darkness is similarly presented in Han, a self-interested smuggler struggling with his growing feelings for Leia and the responsibility associated with her cause. The film represents his two sides in Leia and Lando, a representative of his smuggler life. Throughout the film, true friendship is shown to come at a cost. Han is willing to sacrifice himself to save Luke on Hoth. He is then forced to again when he is captured by Vader, frozen in carbonite, and given to Boba Fett. Luke abandons his Jedi training to attempt to rescue his friends. This is criticized by Obi Wan and Yoda as selfish and given to attachments, but can also be read as self-sacrificing.
Generally speaking, Empire is today considered arguably the greatest film in the Star Wars franchise. A “Shakespearean tragedy” of epic proportions, Empire changed the perception in the film industry for what a sequel could be. It did not have to be a retread of the original. Its cliffhanger ending shocked many, but has since become highly influential. It created the concept of the film trilogy as we understand it today. And if one of Lucas’ goals was to create fan investment and excitement for the story’s thrilling conclusion, he absolutely succeeded. The final film of the Original Trilogy - 1983’s Return of the Jedi - would bring the trilogy to an immensely satisfying if bittersweet conclusion. Most fans and critics alike agree that that conclusion could not have happened without The Empire Strikes Back.
Next Time on Blue Skies in Camelot: More Pop Culture in 1980
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That could be fun!
I do have some ideas for the prequels' casting, story differences, etc. @LordYam is my go-to brainstorm partner on Star Wars, but of course, I welcome any and all suggestions.Thank you very much!
Glad you enjoyed. I go back and forth on which of the Original Trilogy is my personal favorite. But I think Empire is almost certainly the strongest film from an artistic standpoint.True.Thank you very much!