Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun

I suppose so
On that note not only I thought you were from Japan but I was 100% sure you were a nationalist because of other out of context comments 😣 its why I was a little reluctant to interact with you initially here
Nice! Palaeontology is a lot more than children bashing dinosaur toys around and tbf I do hope more ppl like it one day.
Indeed! It has been a passion of mine even since I was a child(yes, with dinosaur toys, and nuggets) and back in the day I'd watch documentaries on it 24/7
Lately though it has been put to the side due to my obsession with history stuff, but I still love it
Though instead of dinos or the megafauna my current favorite of it is a species of sponge x3
 
On that note not only I thought you were from Japan but I was 100% sure you were a nationalist because of other out of context comments 😣 its why I was a little reluctant to interact with you initially here
Lmao if I'm a nationalist of anything I'd be a Cantonese nationalist, which I think some ppl may have picked up on when I said I'm from Hong Kong. The reason why tho is defo not appropriate here.
Indeed! It has been a passion of mine even since I was a child(yes, with dinosaur toys, and nuggets) and back in the day I'd watch documentaries on it 24/7
Lately though it has been put to the side due to my obsession with history stuff, but I still love it
Though instead of dinos or the megafauna my current favorite of it is a species of sponge x3
Ye it's quite fun to find a fellow palaeontology lover! Modern animals are just as cool and that's why I'm doing a degree on biochemistry.
 
Lmao if I'm a nationalist of anything I'd be a Cantonese nationalist, which I think some ppl may have picked up on when I said I'm from Hong Kong.
Now thats hilarious because Canton is my favorite part of China(cuz my best friend is from there) and thats one of the reasons why I dislike China screws x3
Looking back at our discussion now it feels like we were butting heads over who was the #1 Canton lover, unintentional I swear!

Now to let a bit less off-topic, I've recently watched a video on the inaccuracies of The Last Samurai, which was mostly pointing out the obvious because obviously Tom Cruise wasnt the last remaining samurai during the Meiji Restoration~

It made me think tho how samurais and ninjas will be seen in modern day, specially by westerners, with how the butterflies go and the cultural clash differs here

One of the things mentioned in the video was how Bushido wasnt really a code adopted unanimously by the warrior class and Im curious how the book will be perceived in this world with the knowledge on japanese culture being more in-dept
 
Now thats hilarious because Canton is my favorite part of China(cuz my best friend is from there) and thats one of the reasons why I dislike China screws x3
Looking back at our discussion now it feels like we were butting heads over who was the #1 Canton lover, unintentional I swear!
Lmao this is actually quite funny.

Tbf Southern and northern China has very different geopolitical concerns as the south is focused around the oceans and the valleys, which makes it a very ocean focused culture with many languages split between the mountains, while northern China is mostly homogenous. Basically see it as the USA two thousand years later with the east and west coast having many English descendant languages while the Mississippi basin speaks mainly one language and periodically conquers everything.
Now to let a bit less off-topic, I've recently watched a video on the inaccuracies of The Last Samurai, which was mostly pointing out the obvious because obviously Tom Cruise wasnt the last remaining samurai during the Meiji Restoration~

It made me think tho how samurais and ninjas will be seen in modern day, specially by westerners, with how the butterflies go and the cultural clash differs here

One of the things mentioned in the video was how Bushido wasnt really a code adopted unanimously by the warrior class and Im curious how the book will be perceived in this world with the knowledge on japanese culture being more in-dept
Now back to alt history!

I think they'd be seen mostly like otl where fantastical tales are spun around their feats. They'd also be praised for following the Bushido code which I think would still be prominent as it parallels how knights were praised for being virtuous and such.

I think Bushido would be something that would be much more diminished in ittl than in otl. It took WWII for it to be gone. I think something would replace it earlier ittl.
 
It made me think tho how samurais and ninjas will be seen in modern day, specially by westerners, with how the butterflies go and the cultural clash differs here
Their aspect of being mooches from domain stipends – if they don't lord over land as domain-owners – would have been much more apparent from outside observers.

That said, any government that would have come out of the Bakumatsu would have never afforded maintaining this massive class of white-collar pensioners as that was. Hence, they would have likewise massively reduced their privileges by recalibrating the nobility system like how the Meiji government did it IOTL.

The west is just too enamoured by samurai mysticism for them to easily understand its less-than-ideal nuances.
 
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Now to let a bit less off-topic, I've recently watched a video on the inaccuracies of The Last Samurai, which was mostly pointing out the obvious because obviously Tom Cruise wasnt the last remaining samurai during the Meiji Restoration~

It made me think tho how samurais and ninjas will be seen in modern day, specially by westerners, with how the butterflies go and the cultural clash differs here

One of the things mentioned in the video was how Bushido wasnt really a code adopted unanimously by the warrior class and Im curious how the book will be perceived in this world with the knowledge on japanese culture being more in-dept
Two reasons why the romantization of samurai and bushido seeped into the lower classes was because of the abrupt modernization of Japan and the fact that lower-class samurai were the engine of the Sonno joi movement and ultimately the Meiji Restoration rather than a bunch of daimyo.
I think they'd be seen mostly like otl where fantastical tales are spun around their feats. They'd also be praised for following the Bushido code which I think would still be prominent as it parallels how knights were praised for being virtuous and such.

I think Bushido would be something that would be much more diminished in ittl than in otl. It took WWII for it to be gone. I think something would replace it earlier ittl.
Diminshed indeed it will be ITTL.
 
Now thats hilarious because Canton is my favorite part of China(cuz my best friend is from there) and thats one of the reasons why I dislike China screws x3
It is worth noting that if there was never a unified China, then this territory would not be Kant, but part of the state of the "Northern Viet".

The west is just too enamoured by samurai mysticism for them to easily understand its less-than-ideal nuances.
Well ... idealization generally manifests itself when the author uses the imagination. And given that the era of capital is approaching - then nostalgia for the samurai past will manifest itself - no one has ever liked merchants. The difference will be, however, that here it will be part of "Japanese romanticism" - due to the rather late arrival of capitalism, romanticism did not develop in Asia as an independent cultural movement. Here, too, a moment appears that contributes to the formation of such a trend - despite the appeal to the past, it actually contributes to the individualization of consciousness in bourgeois society. That is, in the 19th century, the conditional Japanese Ivanhoe appears - if there may be some nuances in the original, then the further the less these nuances remain. And in any case, ideas will be promoted about how a person should act, how he should not act, and so on - with the statement of clear morality.
 
It is worth noting that if there was never a unified China, then this territory would not be Kant, but part of the state of the "Northern Viet".
I disagree on this. The word 'Yue' is a general name for barbarians, from which the Chinese symbol for 'Viet' comes from. We don't even know what language they spoke. Prob it'd be an Austronesian language but we know very little about them because there weren't a lot known about them. There's a reason why the original name is the 'hundred yue'.

I'd think if there never is a unified China it'd be ruled by one state that periodically gets assaulted by some Chinese groups forcing it to state build.
 
It is worth noting that if there was never a unified China, then this territory would not be Kant, but part of the state of the "Northern Viet".


Well ... idealization generally manifests itself when the author uses the imagination. And given that the era of capital is approaching - then nostalgia for the samurai past will manifest itself - no one has ever liked merchants. The difference will be, however, that here it will be part of "Japanese romanticism" - due to the rather late arrival of capitalism, romanticism did not develop in Asia as an independent cultural movement. Here, too, a moment appears that contributes to the formation of such a trend - despite the appeal to the past, it actually contributes to the individualization of consciousness in bourgeois society. That is, in the 19th century, the conditional Japanese Ivanhoe appears - if there may be some nuances in the original, then the further the less these nuances remain. And in any case, ideas will be promoted about how a person should act, how he should not act, and so on - with the statement of clear morality.
My biggest gripe with that film is that it tried to suggest its content as fact when it's supposed to be much more of an "adventure" movie, misrepresenting large parts of history with its very shallow depiction. Sure, it got people interested in the culture - but still - it did more to reaffirm the romanticised conception they got through the narrow slit that the few translated literature and mall ninja shite have given them than to actually give substance in regards to the circumstances surrounding the Satsuma rebellion.

Of course, it is Hollywood being Hollywood, but like the Soviets have conceded about Finland's domestic policy: I am invoking my right to be so nosy about its business, and that film is but a shallow cash grab fetishising that aspect of the culture. Though this need not be said and is - very much - unwarranted, I can't help but get second-hand embarrassment for everyone and everything that film has involved.

It is a bloody blight on the arts of filmmaking and communications, and AH.com has done way better in regard to self-inserts! /end rant

That said - as for the actual point of your comment - the samurai class is very much alive as a thriving institution at this point of this timeline, and it also differentiated itself from the OTL Tokugawa bureaucracy in that 1) they engaged in the mercantilistic business at the outset, as opposed to just doing so in the start of the 18th century (and with it blowing up on its faces the middle of that century thanks to producing their own debt crisis); and 2) large parts of it had actually gained veterancy in the 17th century thanks to the war in Luzon.

Hence, there's still nothing much lost to be reimagined. I doubt that - at this point at least, and especially in regards to the elderly generations - they are remembering the Sengoku period as anything other than being an awful time of non-stop mobilisation and civil warfare. It's only more so now that everyone and their mothers from Azuchi westwards are so concerned with the bean-counting involved in exploiting and managing their overseas mercantile interests like how every modernised and civilised society that has ascended with capitalism should act, leaving not much time on their parts to fellate on that past.

It's not that Miyamoto Mushashi would have never written The Book of Five Rings; rather, it's just that West Japan had become much less of an enthusiastic audience for it than it had been IOTL. It's going to produce ambitious people in the likes of Bismarck and Bakumatsu activists, leaving the OTL development of the martial arts and other samurai foppishness as second fiddles; after all, they certainly won't want to slit their bellies when there is so much empty land in Cagayan valley that they can lord over that Azuchi is currently doling out like candy.
 
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That said - as for the actual point of your comment - the samurai class is very much alive as a thriving institution at this point of this timeline, and it also differentiated itself from the OTL Tokugawa bureaucracy in that 1) they engaged in the mercantilistic business at the outset, as opposed to just doing so in the start of the 18th century (and with it blowing up on its faces the middle of that century thanks to producing their own debt crisis); and 2) large parts of it had actually gained veterancy in the 17th century thanks to the war in Luzon.

Hence, there's still nothing much lost to be reimagined. I doubt that - at this point at least, and especially in regards to the elderly generations - they are remembering the Sengoku period as anything other than being an awful time of non-stop mobilisation and civil warfare. It's only more so now that everyone and their mothers from Azuchi westward are so concerned with the bean-counting involved in exploiting and managing their overseas mercantile interests like how every modernised and civilised society that has ascended with capitalism should act, leaving not much time on their parts to fellate on that past.

It's not that Miyamoto Mushashi would have never written The Book of Five Rings; rather, it's just that West Japan had become much less of an enthusiastic audience for it than it had been IOTL. It's going to produce ambitious people in the likes of Bismarck and Bakumatsu activists, leaving the OTL development of martial arts and samurai foppishness as a second fiddle; after all, they certainly won't want to slit their bellies when there is so much empty land in Cagayan valley that they can lord over that Azuchi is currently doling out like candies.
Well, I still spoke about the 19th century - now, of course, few people are interested in this matter. Although martial arts will be seriously affected by this, there is a risk of interruption of continuity, and attempts at rehabilitation on the wave of romantic nationalism will look as ridiculous as Slavic neo-paganism.

Well, by the way - the conquest of the Philippines can also become the basis for adventure romances.
 
Well, I still spoke about the 19th century - now, of course, few people are interested in this matter. Although martial arts will be seriously affected by this, there is a risk of interruption of continuity, and attempts at rehabilitation on the wave of romantic nationalism will look as ridiculous as Slavic neo-paganism.

Well, by the way - the conquest of the Philippines can also become the basis for adventure romances.
I think that less will be retained than otl, but martial arts of some sort will still be retained as more of a sport, especially judo and the such.
 
Chapter 53: Post-Gapan Japan, From One War To Another

Chapter 53: Post-Gapan Japan, From One War To Another


Japan, in winning the Iberian-Japanese War, had not only made substantial territorial and commercial gains in Southeast Asia but also had beaten the most powerful empire in the world. Despite a seemingly positive outcome, the war had come at several hidden costs. Overseas trade had been completely disrupted in the region as a result of the war, the Spanish and Portuguese having been expelled from all Japanese ports and vice versa and Macau having been effectively blockaded halfway through the war. Additionally, the numerous naval battles in the South China Sea made those waters too dangerous for many merchants to traverse through. On top of this, the war had been an expensive endeavor. Expanded trade with Joseon during the war wasn’t enough to make up the difference, resulting in the implementation of a wartime scutage, the first ever direct tax on the daimyo. Despite the unpopularity of its implementation among many daimyo, Azuchi through inspector-general Hori Chikayoshi and Nobutomo’s closest confidante among the Sangi-shu, Inaba Michikatsu, helped coerce the acceptance of the tax. This, however, failed to prevent bitterness from developing among the taxed lords.

Through the Treaty of Gapan, Japan became the new mercantile middleman between Europe and Ming China through the return of Macau from Portugal back to the latter, taking on a role previously filled by Portuguese Macau before the normalization of Sino-Japanese relations in 1607. This incentivized the return of many Spanish and Portuguese merchants to cities like Nagasaki and Sakai. However, Catholic missionaries and priests were forbidden from returning and the religious practices of the merchants were strictly monitored and regulated by Azuchi, the construction of even churches exclusive to the Iberians banned in post-Gapan Japan. This, combined with anti-Iberian sentiments among many among the general populace, limited Spanish-Portuguese presence in the home islands and the Iberian powers would never attain the same economic presence and influence they once held years before the war. The Dutch and the English to a much lesser extent were thus able to retain much of their mercantile gains from the war. On the other hand, Azuchi ironically would collect less revenue than expected from their portion of the Manila trade as that galleon trade’s revenue declined due partially to decreased Iberian presence in Japan.

Additionally, Japan’s new role as a mercantile middleman soured relations with their nominal overlord, Ming China, for Emperor Zhenchun and his court began to feel that Japan held too much control over their seas and oceangoing commerce. This resentment was exacerbated by the realm being economically weakened by prolonged peasant rebellions and frequent natural disasters, increasing the importance of the issue in the imperial court’s mind. Azuchi would send a delegation to Beijing headed by Nobutomo’s younger brother Oda Tomoaki in 1634 in order to ease tensions through concessions and tribute, including greater privileges for Chinese merchants at Japanese ports. Although the delegation and tribute was initially well-received by the Ming emperor, he became frustrated when Tomoaki refused many additional Ming demands, including reducing Dutch presence in Japan, owing to bad history between Ming China and the Dutch [1]. What offended the Zhenchun Emperor was Japan effectively undermining the norms of the longstanding Cefeng tributary system, which the latter was a voluntary participant of, by challenging his absolute superiority. The Japanese delegation would eventually accede to reducing Dutch presence in Bireitou only, a compromise Zhenchun accepted as neither realm could afford war or a decline in commercial relations. Despite a thaw in tensions afterwards, Sino-Japanese relations would never be the same. This diplomatic interaction also showed Beijing just how much had changed beyond its borders and how perhaps a new course of action might be necessary.​

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Portrait of the Zhenchun Emperor​

The first sign of this was the 1638 opening of Macau as a port open to limited trade with all friendly European countries by Emperor Zhenchun after the economy of the region began to suffer significantly with the lost trade. Even the Dutch were with great reluctance allowed access, although this move would over time improve Dutch-Ming relations. To a certain extent, however, this move was a snub towards Azuchi and meant to break Japanese commercial pre-eminence. For all its meaning however, the opening of Macau drew little reaction from Japan as by this time, Nobutomo was preoccupied with conflict in the home islands.

This conflict would come from the same resentment that had originated over the introduction of wartime scutage, the end of the war failing to resolve due to Japanese gains disproportionately benefiting Azuchi, hereditary vassals, and tozama daimyo in the west. Among those dissatisfied was Hojo clan head and prominent Kanto daimyo Hojo Ujinobu, a maternal grandson of Nobunaga himself [2]. Despite the Hojo clan being one of the most powerful daimyo in the realm and its marriage alliance with the Oda clan, it had been largely excluded from Azuchi politics, instead relegated within Kanto affairs like many other tozama lords in the region under the Kamakura Tandai’s authority. Ujinobu had always privately hated the Kamakura-fu’s existence and how it suppressed his and the entire region’s political power, especially with nearby clans like the Tokugawa, Date, and even the Takigawa attaining greater realmwide prominence. This hatred deepened with Satake Yoshinobu’s appointment to the Sangi-shu over the Hojo lord, and although he contributed manpower to the third invasion force during the war and thus avoided paying scutage, Ujinobu still considered the tax an act of overreach and was frustrated that the war effectively ended any possibility of his own plans to establish direct trade between the Kanto region and New Spain. Additionally, despite his military contributions to the war effort, he received no rewards for his service.​

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Portrait of Hojo Ujinobu​

Although Ujinobu was a powerful daimyo, not only was Azuchi’s authority reaching unprecedented heights after the war but his great prestige ironically risked arousing suspicion as the Hojo lord could easily attract the allegiance of other sympathetic lords. However, his position would be strengthened by the deaths of two men in 1636: the “One-eyed Dragon of the North” Date Masamune and the 61 year old Kamakura Tandai, Oda Toshimasa. This left a power vacuum that allowed Ujinobu to reassert the Hojo faction’s power in Kamakura. Then, in 1637, came a secret letter from Owari province, one that would engineer the formation of a conspiracy against the sitting daijo-daijin and trigger a large-scale rebellion.

[1]: In 1618, the Dutch took Chinese junks in order to force the opening of a port in Fujian. This was unsuccessful. In 1622, the VOC unsuccessfully attempted to take Macau from the Portuguese. Between 1622 and 1624, the VOC and Ming fought over control of the Penghu Islands, which concluded in a VOC defeat.

[2]: Ujinobu is the son of Hojo Ujinao and Tokuhime, Nobunaga’s eldest daughter and also Tokugawa Nobuyasu’s wife between 1567 and 1579.​
 
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I'm not surprised by this happening as ppl have talked about Kanto not being part of the process despite naturally being the biggest region and not seeing as much boons to colonisation as the southern/western regions. I hope whomever wins can react appropriately to the Russians moving into the Far East and prevent them from getting to the shores in the late 17th century as Korea, Japan and China has to react appropriately. And get to Brunei and Johore eventually.

I hope we also catch up on what Korea and China are doing. Especially China. China does seem to want to go through some sort of modernisation too, and prob will have to struggle between conservatism and progressivism, same as Korea. China would be especially interesting as a powerful china is very dangerous for everyone. Korea is comparatively much less dangerous especially if Japan doesn't cross into Korean territories.
 
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Just read through this and I really like it
I cant wait for the next chapter
Thank you
I'm not surprised by this happening as ppl have talked about Kanto not being part of the process despite naturally being the biggest region and not seeing as much boons to colonisation as the southern/western regions. I hope whomever wins can react appropriately to the Russians moving into the Far East and prevent them from getting to the shores in the late 17th century as Korea, Japan and China has to react appropriately. And get to Brunei and Johore eventually.

I hope we also catch up on what Korea and China are doing. Especially China. China does seem to want to go through some sort of modernisation too, and prob will have to struggle between conservatism and progressivism, same as Korea. China would be especially interesting as a powerful china is very dangerous for everyone. Korea is comparatively much less dangerous especially if Japan doesn't cross into Korean territories.
Both Joseon and Ming are affected by the same factors but are taking different approaches or going at different paces based on their own strength. Ming China is still the largest economy in the world and can kinda play around with lesser powers even though it is currently afflicted with peasant rebellions, famines, and natural disasters though not to the same extent.

Joseon on the other hand faces potential invasions from the Jurchens, Japanese, and even Europeans to an extent so their hand is more forced.
 
Both Joseon and Ming are affected by the same factors but are taking different approaches or going at different paces based on their own strength. Ming China is still the largest economy in the world and can kinda play around with lesser powers even though it is currently afflicted with peasant rebellions, famines, and natural disasters though not to the same extent.

Joseon on the other hand faces potential invasions from the Jurchens, Japanese, and even Europeans to an extent so their hand is more forced.
Yeah I guess, Ming China is still 'numba 1 of za warudo' while joseon still needs to play within the balance of power. The paths of modernisation would be different for every nation. I do hope some fail at modernisation tho, it's not an easy task especially as industrialisation occurs.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if a few nations failed to but it really depends on their rulers and who they choose to help modernize or cause more problems.
 
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