The idea that in a victorious CSA might have ended with a Pacific coast and having lost in this way, the westernmost point in the CSA will be around Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Sequel de Mayo (Cinco de Mayo, Vol. II)
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
My nomination would be for a line directly south from the WV/OH/KY triple point, though I'm not sure if it keeps that city that had the Kentucky Fried massacre in the Confederacy...
Don’t worry. The confederacy will regain Kentucky and Texas when Long gets into power.
Yeah, the problem with the Kentucky river is that you can't use it north of the Lexington-Frankfort area without giving the confederates Covington, with all of the issues that represents, and you can't really use it south of Lexington-Frankfort either, since it flows east-west out of the Appalachians before turning north before it flows into the Ohio. You could use the Dix, one of its tributaries that does flow along the correct axis, but that one originates within Kentucky itself, so you'd need to freehand it at the very southern edge of the border.
If I may, I've taken the liberty to roughly sketch out what I think a realistic boundary that's acceptable to all parties would look like. It would:
-Allow West KY to keep Covington and its environs(obvious hugely beneficial to them, and likely a red line for the US in any case), as well as Frankfort, which if it remains the capital would be important for symbolic reasons
-Give the confederates all of the white majority mountainous areas in the east, as well as Lexington, which is realistically the only urban area of any decent size that they can claim
-Give the US and CSA a small border along the Ohio, but away from any large urban areas, which both sides should be ok with for trade reasons, although ensuring that it remains demilitarized would likely be another red line for the US
A thing to consider with dividing Kentucky is that the most hardcore Unionist area was the Cumberland Plateau, which is right on the Tennessee border and makes finding a border all that much harder. How much the unionist feeling lingers on nearly 60 years after secession, I don't know, but I'd imagine it's still, at bare minimum, the part of the state that would mind leaving the CSA/joining the US (which, still unclear if this is a division between a Republic or US State of Kentucky) the least.
Splitting off just the east region on this map could work, potentially also including the E8 area in the "free commonwealth". That would leave all major cities and most rail lines in US friendly hands, and protect Cincinnati. If you were worried about the area south of Louisville you could also leave E1 and E2 areas in US friendly hands.
I think realistically any border in that area would be extremely difficult to enforce, but I also think that eastern Kentucky would be difficult enough to govern that splitting it off could be appealing. Doubly so since iirc most of the unionists left after the civil war. Would also make for a "interesting" borderland, I could see it quickly becoming a hub for cross-border smuggling and a potential hiding spot for all kinds of bandits, guerillas, warlords, etc.
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Lol that’s pretty good
ayup
There’d definitely be some small adjustments to where I’d place the border, but these are both relatively close.
Correct. Not all, obviously, many reconciled themselves to the Confederacy, but the majority of the Upper South’s unionists (including Andrew Johnson, who I believe I had as a Cabinet officer in the 1860s and 1870s) either stayed or went north
I just don't see Lexington ending up in the Rump Confederate Kentucky. The US would have run supply lines through there to Knoxville, so that area would not only have been conquered, it would have had quite a few Negro soldiers guarding it. (who will strangely never get disarmed by the US Army.)
(Hmm. Choices for what to do with Weaponry in the US draw down from the GAW. Sell into to one side or another in the CEW, sell it to the Kentucky Negros, destroy it. Could be an interesting political question. )
There is a nice Geographical definition for the area that I expect to stay confederate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumberland_Plateau...
Which the more that I look at it may give the Cumberland River consideration for the most screwed up river politically post GAW. Rising on the Cumberland Plateau , which I presume will remain confederate, flowing into the KFR, then into Confederate Tennessee, then back into the KFR and flowing into the Ohio.
Lexington was also (and to an extent still is) a major rail hub, giving it back to the Confederates would not only give their rump Kentucky population and prestige, but also a vital transport link.
Granted Knoxville was very much a secondary theater to west and central Tennessee
One thing I’ve considered ITTL, though, is the limits on transportation and non-internal markets pose on certain areas on both sides. Is Lexington as important if shipments aren’t headed north as much? Conversely, is St. Louis quite as large without being the fulcrum at which South meets West?
True, but became more major as the primary push went to Atlanta relative to Alabama and Mississippi. Lexington is the heart of Horse country, how much does that change? (and does it make sense to have a slave as a jockey?)
In this situation, it feels like River boats shipping south between 1863 and 1913 would have had a common starting point, like the Convoys of WWI & WWII. The question is whether that is St. Louis (which loses the Ohio), Cairo (which can pick up Missouri traffic as well, but worse as a city location) or somewhere farther south. It is unclear to me what the rules on the Mississippi are in the area between the US SE Missouri/bootheel on the west and CS Kentucky/Tennessee on the east, so I'm not sure where the must pay area starts. I could see that leading to a growth of New Madrid (For all the New Madrid quakes were significant, they are rare).
Part XI: From These Ashes, Nothing Grows
Part XI: From These Ashes, Nothing Grows
"...that grand, majestic bird;
that the same Vesuvian ash which buried grand Pompei,
Now where Naples' olives grow.
That from death comes birth,
From destruction rejuvenation.
But such laws of nature end along the Mississippi;
Across the sea to our fallowed shores the phoenix does not fly.
For sink your hands into the cooling soot of what once was Dixie, and see!
From these ashes, nothing grows."
"...that grand, majestic bird;
that the same Vesuvian ash which buried grand Pompei,
Now where Naples' olives grow.
That from death comes birth,
From destruction rejuvenation.
But such laws of nature end along the Mississippi;
Across the sea to our fallowed shores the phoenix does not fly.
For sink your hands into the cooling soot of what once was Dixie, and see!
From these ashes, nothing grows."
So, the US dictates what the "New American Order" is essentially like, whilst continuing to watch how the world burns around them?
They have won the war, but not necessarily the Peace...
And then the Central European War happens....
Yay!
They have won the war, but not necessarily the Peace...
And then the Central European War happens....
Yay!
From nothing, I wrote this just now because I liked the name of the Part
Yay indeed lol
Maybe they should cry more?
God, I'm already dreading the copium and it hasn't even really happened yet.