Sequel de Mayo (Cinco de Mayo, Vol. II)
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
The Bourbon Restoration: The Confederate States 1915-33
"...unlike the semi-coordinated attacks carried out during the Great Resistance, the events of March 7, 1917 were, by and large, spontaneous.
Bloody Wednesday was not the most violent day in Confederate history, nor was it even the most violent episode of the years of postwar chaos. But what made it notable, and such an important chapter in the annals of the postwar era, was how riots and sporadic attacks occurred in all eleven Confederate states, all on the same day, as news of the Mount Vernon terms emerged after the treaty's completion two days earlier and the news that the United States was going to secure its occupation privileges even before the treaty was ratified by what remained of the Confederate Senate.
Nineteen Yankee soldiers and two British sailors were killed in various shootings, stabbings, or beatings throughout March 7; hundreds of Negroes and White Confederates were the main victims, however, of both massive pogroms in New Orleans, Charlotte and Jackson and counter-attacks deep into the night by angry freedman paramilitaries that had spent the last four months arming themselves from the ocean of weaponry floating around the Confederacy. The killings were brutal, including hangings from any lamppost or tree that could be found, to people being burned alive while tethered to the ground, to disemboweling and letting animals eat entrails while the victim was still alive, screaming. Bloody Wednesday was not officially part of the Red Summer, and the Great Resistance had not yet been declared, but in its explosive reaction it told the story of the years to come, of the destabilizing violence the Confederacy would carry out against the occupying forces and each other, as White Confederates refused to countenance emancipation, and the emancipated elected to fight to the death for their newfound freedom..."
- The Bourbon Restoration: The Confederate States 1915-33
Bloody Wednesday was not the most violent day in Confederate history, nor was it even the most violent episode of the years of postwar chaos. But what made it notable, and such an important chapter in the annals of the postwar era, was how riots and sporadic attacks occurred in all eleven Confederate states, all on the same day, as news of the Mount Vernon terms emerged after the treaty's completion two days earlier and the news that the United States was going to secure its occupation privileges even before the treaty was ratified by what remained of the Confederate Senate.
Nineteen Yankee soldiers and two British sailors were killed in various shootings, stabbings, or beatings throughout March 7; hundreds of Negroes and White Confederates were the main victims, however, of both massive pogroms in New Orleans, Charlotte and Jackson and counter-attacks deep into the night by angry freedman paramilitaries that had spent the last four months arming themselves from the ocean of weaponry floating around the Confederacy. The killings were brutal, including hangings from any lamppost or tree that could be found, to people being burned alive while tethered to the ground, to disemboweling and letting animals eat entrails while the victim was still alive, screaming. Bloody Wednesday was not officially part of the Red Summer, and the Great Resistance had not yet been declared, but in its explosive reaction it told the story of the years to come, of the destabilizing violence the Confederacy would carry out against the occupying forces and each other, as White Confederates refused to countenance emancipation, and the emancipated elected to fight to the death for their newfound freedom..."
- The Bourbon Restoration: The Confederate States 1915-33
If karma truly exists Ben Tillman will be one of the Senators forced to ratify this treaty. He was the chief architect of Bliss-Blackburn not getting ratified in the Senate and he was one of the men who developed the Heritage House Agreement in September 1913. He deserves one of his last official votes as a Senator being forced to sign the treaty that will cripple his beloved country for the next several decades.
For that matter, hopefully Hoke Smith, Senator from Georgia and former SoS for the CSA, has to vote "aye" as well. Fuck that guy too.
former President Cotton Ed smith needs to be in the chamber to see it as well.
EDIT: so it just really occurred to me that Cotton Ed Smith ascended to the Presidency via death of the previous President, and sugned a declaration of war, whereas President Patton also ascended to the Presidency via death of the previous President, yet signed a ceasefire/armistice or Peace Treaty that ended the war.
Poetic irony there.
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So I’m gonna guess that the CSA will be reduced to the 11 states that it comprised of IOTL. And being forced to emancipate all of its slaves is well-deserved catharsis.
This is in reference to Texas not really being a state anymore, and Kentucky’s status is basically just a giant shrug meme right now, too
Oh yeah, I forgot about what happened to Texas. I wonder how they will fare speaking of which.
Did they ratify it in absentia in Charlotte or the Yankees force them back in Richmond along with the captured senators?
In my head I imagine an image of Yankee Troops surrounding the halls while the senate in session to ratify the treaty
I wonder what going to be the reaction in UK and US
At this point, I'm curious as to just how many US troops are in Texas. I don't think the US loses that much by giving El Paso and Dallas to the RoT Government. There may not be official recognition (without RoT eliminating Slavery), but I'm not sure the US loses that much either by withdrawing. My *guess* that there will be enough of a core US Military, even with occupation duties that Texas would end up in a world of hurt challenging the United States. I'm sure that Texas will *quite* happily define themselves in ways of what the CSA is *not*.
This does quite nicely state what the largest Cities are in the CSA that aren't occupied. (With the caveat that cities like Nashville and Charleston may not be actually be occupied given that they have been completely flattened. (Now I've got this image of Carthage and Charleston being sister cities.
).
I *think* the areas of the Confederacy that are going to be closest to OTL Zone Rouge areas (badly fought over areas of Belgium in WWI) are Nashville and El Paso. And we know which one the US will be happier to assist with cleanup for. (I *think* they are the only areas which were fought over for more than a year, with perhaps some parts of the Washington DC area being close).
As a possible Vignette near the beginning of the war. I wonder how Fort McHenry did in the Confederate Invasion of Baltimore.
This does quite nicely state what the largest Cities are in the CSA that aren't occupied. (With the caveat that cities like Nashville and Charleston may not be actually be occupied given that they have been completely flattened. (Now I've got this image of Carthage and Charleston being sister cities.
). I *think* the areas of the Confederacy that are going to be closest to OTL Zone Rouge areas (badly fought over areas of Belgium in WWI) are Nashville and El Paso. And we know which one the US will be happier to assist with cleanup for. (I *think* they are the only areas which were fought over for more than a year, with perhaps some parts of the Washington DC area being close).
As a possible Vignette near the beginning of the war. I wonder how Fort McHenry did in the Confederate Invasion of Baltimore.
Fort McHenry got pancaked along with the other harbor defenses on 9/9/13At this point, I'm curious as to just how many US troops are in Texas. I don't think the US loses that much by giving El Paso and Dallas to the RoT Government. There may not be official recognition (without RoT eliminating Slavery), but I'm not sure the US loses that much either by withdrawing. My *guess* that there will be enough of a core US Military, even with occupation duties that Texas would end up in a world of hurt challenging the United States. I'm sure that Texas will *quite* happily define themselves in ways of what the CSA is *not*.
This does quite nicely state what the largest Cities are in the CSA that aren't occupied. (With the caveat that cities like Nashville and Charleston may not be actually be occupied given that they have been completely flattened. (Now I've got this image of Carthage and Charleston being sister cities.
I *think* the areas of the Confederacy that are going to be closest to OTL Zone Rouge areas (badly fought over areas of Belgium in WWI) are Nashville and El Paso. And we know which one the US will be happier to assist with cleanup for. (I *think* they are the only areas which were fought over for more than a year, with perhaps some parts of the Washington DC area being close).
As a possible Vignette near the beginning of the war. I wonder how Fort McHenry did in the Confederate Invasion of Baltimore.
Terms of the Treaty of Mount Vernon (by Curtain Jerker)
Had some time to kill so I went through the last few posts and I think this is exactly what the Mount Vernon Treaty entails. I read/took notes of the four "Mount Vernon Congress" threadmarks. If I'm wrong anywhere let me know and I'll edit with attribution. These are roughly in order of the posts themselves.
Territorial Concessions (Virginia)
Northampton and Accomack Counties added to Maryland.
Maryland extended to the Rappahannock (Loudoun, Prince William, Stafford, and Fairfax Counties as well as the Northern Neck added).
To West Virginia --> Pocahontas, Greenbrier, Pendleton, Hampshire, Hardy, Morgan, Berkley, Jefferson, Frederick, and Clarke Counties added.
Military
Confederate Army limited to 25,000 men (two divisions with a division in reserve); no horse nor armored cavalry.
They are allowed 10 airplanes and 16 scouting balloons, all unarmed.
State militias are capped at 5,000 men each and can't be deployed outside their home states.
The Navy is limited to the equivalent tonnage of two cruisers total; they are not allowed to go north of a line from the mouth of the York River to Cape Charles.
Conscription is forbidden; the military is entirely professional and all-volunteer.
Occupation
The United States can occupy "ports, railyards, and areas of strategic value" to "ensure the execution of the terms of any final agreement."
Operation of the CSA rail system handed over in its entirety to the US Army.
Confederate civil officialdom must "cooperate and obey military directives" from the US Army and American civlian occupation forces.
Economic/Trade
The CSA can't set tariffs on the US, either generally or specific to any good or industry, for 50 years.
After 50 years they can levy a maximum tariff of 5% on raw goods for the next 20 years and 10% on raw goods in perpetuity thereafter.
"Finished and industrial goods" are forever exempt from tariffs.
The CSA can't set any export duties on raw goods to the USA under the same terms as the tariffs.
Mississippi River/New Orleans
"The whole of the river and its drainage" is available for the use of the US with no interdiction, molestation, or interruption of free flow of trade
NOLA --> "No duty on passage out of the city or import into this continent" on "any vessel registered and flagged as part of the United States."
The USA also gets a foreign concession in NOLA similar to concessions in Asia of 45 hectares. [Curious to see exactly where in NOLA this concession is]
Essentially the entire river is a "zone of free trade."
Penalties/Reparations
A "War Guilt Clause" a la OTL's Article 231 of the Treaty of Versailles
The CSA will pay 15 million dollars in gold, silver or other "hard assets" per year by 1927, then 500,000 per year for the next 25 years, at 10% interest.
The USA will occupy CSA ports until 1927. The USA can also re-occupy ports in the CSA if the Confederates stop paying anytime from 1927-1952.
Territorial Concessions (Non-Virginia)
The American de facto control over the Indian Territory/Sequoyah is rendered official.
The Arizona Territory is annexed by the USA.
The entire Florida Keys, from Elliot Key southward, is annexed by the US.
The US gets "unfettered and unmolested road and rail access to the mainland from the Keys" in perpetuity. (The Keys are official an insular territory of the USA)
Slavery/Abolition
Turner Proviso --> The emancipation of slaves "in the course of war" was "permanent and irrevocable as a consequence of such war." This freed ~80% of all pre-war slaves.
The CSA will pass a Law of Free Birth, a la Brazil.
The American Army won't leave each CSA state until that state passes a law to abolish slavery.
The American Army won't leave the CSA as a whole until the CSA amends their constitution to "protect the rights and privileges of all persons born free."
Kentucky
In addition to Military Administration, there's now a defined civilian entity called the "Free Commonwealth of Kentucky."
Texas
Nothing written in the Treaty itself; the "status of Texas remained fully up in the air as an early issue for Root to address."
Territorial Concessions (Virginia)
Northampton and Accomack Counties added to Maryland.
Maryland extended to the Rappahannock (Loudoun, Prince William, Stafford, and Fairfax Counties as well as the Northern Neck added).
To West Virginia --> Pocahontas, Greenbrier, Pendleton, Hampshire, Hardy, Morgan, Berkley, Jefferson, Frederick, and Clarke Counties added.
Military
Confederate Army limited to 25,000 men (two divisions with a division in reserve); no horse nor armored cavalry.
They are allowed 10 airplanes and 16 scouting balloons, all unarmed.
State militias are capped at 5,000 men each and can't be deployed outside their home states.
The Navy is limited to the equivalent tonnage of two cruisers total; they are not allowed to go north of a line from the mouth of the York River to Cape Charles.
Conscription is forbidden; the military is entirely professional and all-volunteer.
Occupation
The United States can occupy "ports, railyards, and areas of strategic value" to "ensure the execution of the terms of any final agreement."
Operation of the CSA rail system handed over in its entirety to the US Army.
Confederate civil officialdom must "cooperate and obey military directives" from the US Army and American civlian occupation forces.
Economic/Trade
The CSA can't set tariffs on the US, either generally or specific to any good or industry, for 50 years.
After 50 years they can levy a maximum tariff of 5% on raw goods for the next 20 years and 10% on raw goods in perpetuity thereafter.
"Finished and industrial goods" are forever exempt from tariffs.
The CSA can't set any export duties on raw goods to the USA under the same terms as the tariffs.
Mississippi River/New Orleans
"The whole of the river and its drainage" is available for the use of the US with no interdiction, molestation, or interruption of free flow of trade
NOLA --> "No duty on passage out of the city or import into this continent" on "any vessel registered and flagged as part of the United States."
The USA also gets a foreign concession in NOLA similar to concessions in Asia of 45 hectares. [Curious to see exactly where in NOLA this concession is]
Essentially the entire river is a "zone of free trade."
Penalties/Reparations
A "War Guilt Clause" a la OTL's Article 231 of the Treaty of Versailles
The CSA will pay 15 million dollars in gold, silver or other "hard assets" per year by 1927, then 500,000 per year for the next 25 years, at 10% interest.
The USA will occupy CSA ports until 1927. The USA can also re-occupy ports in the CSA if the Confederates stop paying anytime from 1927-1952.
Territorial Concessions (Non-Virginia)
The American de facto control over the Indian Territory/Sequoyah is rendered official.
The Arizona Territory is annexed by the USA.
The entire Florida Keys, from Elliot Key southward, is annexed by the US.
The US gets "unfettered and unmolested road and rail access to the mainland from the Keys" in perpetuity. (The Keys are official an insular territory of the USA)
Slavery/Abolition
Turner Proviso --> The emancipation of slaves "in the course of war" was "permanent and irrevocable as a consequence of such war." This freed ~80% of all pre-war slaves.
The CSA will pass a Law of Free Birth, a la Brazil.
The American Army won't leave each CSA state until that state passes a law to abolish slavery.
The American Army won't leave the CSA as a whole until the CSA amends their constitution to "protect the rights and privileges of all persons born free."
Kentucky
In addition to Military Administration, there's now a defined civilian entity called the "Free Commonwealth of Kentucky."
Texas
Nothing written in the Treaty itself; the "status of Texas remained fully up in the air as an early issue for Root to address."
Beautiful- thank you.
Just wondering, does the U.S. get any bases on or near Confederate territory? I am thinking of Sullivan's Island, SC, The Grand Banks, and potentially along the Gulf Coast. Does anybody know?
This will go well 🙄
Prediction: Not going to happen
I guess it's gonna go like this:
The confederate congress passes a law of free birth (at gunpoint) and Patton signs it.
Patton calls for a constitutional convention (as required) composing of state governments in exile (Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, etc.) and non occupied (Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina) to create the Third Amendement which abolishes slavery (except as punnishment for crime)
The occupied and non occupied states amend their own constitutions to abolish slavery at the state level
This will be a slow process
For the "rights and privileges" part, I think that is too big of a bullet to swallow in the immediate time. Probably during the Era of Long is that going to happen.
If a Fourth Amendment (ITTL version of the 14th Amendment OTL) did happen immediately, expect of it to be toothless because: The Judiciary is toothless itself and the enforcement is basically nonexistent at this point.
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Speaking of the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution, does it have the "punishment for a crime" exception like IOTL or not?
This is really comprehensive, wow. Thank you. Can’t think of anything missed. I’m gonna threadmark this for posterity, too.
Besides the Keys? Nah.
Stay tuned…
Never really thought about it. Let’s say no, since sans a South still in the US they may simply elide something like that as a concern
A shower thought... I believe that the total land that the United States is occupying after this war is greater than that the total land area that the Entente had to occupy after World War I *and* the total land area that the Allies had to Occupy after World War II. (and yes, I know that double counts areas of Germany and Austria.)
Of course, no problem at all to put that together. Thanks for the threadmark - that's how you know I've officially made it here haha
I wonder who is better off by most economic indicators ITTL in 2023 - Chile or the CSA. Both countries got devastated in the GAW, both lost highly productive lands, both are paying ruinous reparations, both have their economies gutted to benefit the USA, both are in for a rough time post-war until things settle down.
If I had to guess I'd say Chile and I don't think it is particularly close. Chile is miles behind OTL but at least it looks like they have somewhat stable political leadership and some sense of national cohesion once the Socialist Republic gets up and running. The CSA's political leadership is, at best, a collection of corrupt men who use the organs of state to further themselves and their cronies at the expense of the common people. American Presidents haven't all been great but even the worst of them (Hendricks, Hill, Root) would be upper echelon Presidents of the CSA given the warlords and caudillos coming down the pipeline.
We've gotten the general feeling that Long will put Humpty Dumpty *somewhat* back together again. The best comparison that I can make is that Long's Presidency will be the equivalent of OTL's Chiang Kai Shek and his Northern Expedition, ending the warlord era and at least getting some level of national Unity.
Yes, I know in that Analogy, the United States is playing the part of Japan and Texas/Oklahoma are *sort of* playing the role Manchuria. (Is Mexico playing the part of Korea or the USSR?) and I feel like we'll have lots of equivalents to the Marco Polo bridge incident.